WOTLK doesn't need RDF

Listen, I get that some people were looking forward to the feature.

However, as Blizzard as openly stated at the beginning of TBCC, we live in a #somechanges world now, not #nochanges.

We need to be prepared to experiment with the sandbox that their data tells them will bear the most authentic “classic experience”.

Realistically, not having RDF isn’t going to be that big of a deal. I see you, people who are threatening to cancel their 4 accounts over it, but the most folks aren’t interested in WOTLK because it has RDF. They’re interested in the raids, the PvP, the class mechanics, Death Knights, the dailies, and other major elements.

RDF was a last-patch-addition that was (reality check) majorly controversial when it was implemented for a lot of the reasons Blizzard has probably decided to nix it this time around.

Imo this was always going to be the issue with progressing Classic all the way to WOTLK, we were inevitably going to suck up the niche community of players who are infamous for constantly pushing Blizz further and further down the road that it eventually becomes what retail did. The ones who create this massive stinky tirade over everything not being exactly the way they want it, instead of pushing through and playing with the tools you are given. I see people flaming Blizzard, threatening their jobs and livelihoods, and conditioning their loyalty entirely around one. single. feature that doesn’t even define what it means to experience WOTLK as a whole.

It was literally added in the ICC patch, which then went on to last an entire friggin’ year as one of the worst content droughts in the games history, so depending on your perspective, RDF barely existed for much of WOTLK’s active content rollout.

Yet WOTLK was still OK.

Honestly, at this rate, I see them launching the game without RDF just to dip their toes in the water anyway. They already announced it, so it seems silly to back out just because of some forum flaming. Maybe a few months down the line they might reconsider, but ya’ll need to relax. WOTLK doesn’t need RDF to be WOTLK. It didn’t need RDF for a vast majority of it’s patches to garner activity.

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This is True!

It is when you want to level alts, after doing everything in the above quote!

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I know tons of people with tons of alts right now, and there is no RDF…

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Hard agree. This is the first time in a while that I’ve felt noticed or heard by the dev team. I appreciate that this has pissed off a lot of people and I don’t take any pleasure from their unhappiness, but this is without a doubt the best decision they could have made.

Very true. We had far more content phases without dungeon finder than we had with it. There was no dungeon finder for 3 raiding tiers (T7, T8 and T9), and then we had it for 1 raiding tier (T10). If you include non-tiers (Eye of Eternity, Obsidium Sanctum, Ruby Sanctum, Onyxia) the amount of content becomes 6 raids without dungeon finder, 2 raids with it. Either way, there’s 3 times as many raids without dungeon finder than with, whether you count non-tier raids or not. Even if you don’t count Onyxia (since it was an anniversary event), there’s still more than double the content that happened entirely without dungeon finder.

I care and agree with Zipzo.

Oooooooooh, rest in pieces Aedd.

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I care, and apparently so does Blizzard because they are listening to the OP.

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Funny thing is, most of the people crying about RDF being removed, were the advocates of #somechanges in TBC and Vanilla classic.

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We had LFD for HALF of WotLKs life cycle. LOTS of people were still playing and starting the game, including myself. The fact of the matter is, for many people, LFD is part of their WotLK experience.

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  • Wrath of the Lich King systems and balance were implemented during its pre-patch (3.0.2) on October 14th, 2008.
  • 420 days pass.
  • Dungeon Finder is introduced in patch 3.3.0 on December 8th, 2009 along with Icecrown Citadel and it’s 5-man dungeons among other things.
  • 308 days pass.
  • Cataclysm systems and balance were implemented during its pre-patch (4.0.1) on October 12th, 2010.

We had Wrath without dungeon finder for 112 days longer than we had Wrath with it. So if we’re deciding whether it’s truly part of the “Wrath experience” based on how long we had it, it wouldn’t make that cut.

We had more content phases without dungeon finder than we had with it. There was no dungeon finder for 3 raiding tiers (T7, T8 and T9), and then we had it for 1 raiding tier (T10). If you include non-tiers (Eye of Eternity, Obsidium Sanctum, Ruby Sanctum, Onyxia) the amount of content becomes 6 raids without dungeon finder, 2 raids with it. Either way, there’s 3 times as many raids without dungeon finder than with, whether you count non-tier raids or not. Even if you don’t count Onyxia (since it was an anniversary event), there’s still more than double the raids.

No matter which way you look at it, leaving dungeon finder out of Wrath would be more true to the Wrath experience than implementing it. HOWEVER, just as with the content phases and gated systems we’ve had in Classic up until now, I do think that dungeon finder has a reasonable place in Wrath. Just not the entire expansion. I think it’s perfectly reasonable for dungeon finder to be implemented in the ICC phase.


"But that’s not how it works!! Wrath pre-patch isn’t Wrath!"

Even if we DO pretend that an expansion only counts as an expansion while it’s actual content is live, we had 390 days without it and 363 days with it. Even with a handicap, Wrath had more time without than with it and there’s still the fact that we had much more content without dungeon finder than with it. Even being biased against the idea that Wrath officially began once we hit patch 3.0.0+, it still doesn’t make dungeon finder a necessity for an “authentic” Wrath Classic.

But that is how it works. An expansion’s major systems, engine updates and balance changes are implemented in it’s pre-patch. Hence, the Wrath pre-patch (3.0.2) starts with a 3 because that’s when the game files themselves transition from BC to Wrath. The only thing that isn’t implemented during the pre-patch is the content itself (increased level cap, quests, access to zones, dungeons/raids). Dungeon finder is a system feature that wasn’t implemented at launch (just like guild banks), not content.

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is it NEEDED?
no
will it help players have fun?
yes

i agree on LFD as long as we get it after phase 1 so the players have their"leveling experience" untouched
but not having it the entire expansion can hurtful in the long run

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We are always playing the latest patch.
We didn’t have to go through balance patches in Classic.
We didn’t have to go through itemization changes in TBC.
We got all those late-patch changes right at the start. So, hows RDF any different from this? IF anything, balance patches, debuff limits are A LOT MORE impactful on the gameplay than a simple dungeon grind. Heck, even layering, merc mode & xrealm BG’s are more impactful than RDF.

Not to mention all custom changes that have already been introduced thus far that aren’t true to Classic, but community has requested it.

Forums/Reddit/Dicsorc/Twitter/MMO are all filled with complaints.
All player made surveys, we had 3 big ones with thousands of responses, and it’s clear that community wants RDF, It’s a big part of Wrath.

Now, I won’t speak on behalf of others, but my goal was tp shift most of my attention away from Retail to Wrath, as leveling Prot Warrior via RDF is by far my best memory. To top it off, I played on private Wrath servers for many years. Leveling Prot warrior is like my #1 fav thing about Wrath. Nonetheless, without RDF tool, I’m not leveling alts. Without RDF, I’m certainly not going to invest nearly as much time as I would have otherwise.

I log into TBCC to find a dungeon, it’s a good 20-30m process. But at times you get lucky and it takes 2-3.
I log into Retail to find a group for a dungeon. 2-3m and I jump straight into action.
So when I have 30m to play, I always hop onto retail. And, imho, retail has a much better community than TBCC. Like, MUCH MUCH better.

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Stop with this.

It’s true, but also, who care about the 1 year period without content ? This clearly wasn’t the best/funniest period of Wrath and players back then were bored too.

I want RFD because I really don’t have time to commit to raids, and it makes running dungeons for badges smoother. It also makes leveling alts more fun.

I’ll still play even without it, but I’m for sure going be asking them to reconsider.

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Speak for yourself. I played back then, and it absolutely was the most enjoyable and memorable time I’ve ever had playing WoW.

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Yes it does. You’re welcome not to use it till 3.3 to stay true to your words.

But you won’t.

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Would be nice to have it while leveling though…

They moved all the quests to inside the dungeons. Shame you are being forced to buy a boost coin now.

Blizzard didnt add LFG to TBC so people would pay to xfer.
Blizzard isnt adding LFG to WOTLK so people will pay to boost coin.

Its all $$$$ people… nostalgia or “Classic feeling” has NOTHING to do with it.

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and blizzard doesnt need my boost money ill spend it elsewhere.

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As far as systems go, we’re getting the 3.3.5 patch for all intents and purposes. Just like TBC Classic was essentially 2.4.3. Therefore, we should get all the systems that were present in 3.3.5.

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There’s no unstated guarantee that we’re meant to only receive anything in it’s final patch state.

Unnerfed bosses for example…

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Yeah yeah, while everyone was complaining about not having new content, T7/T8 being obsolete you had fun in Wrath only because they added LFD i guess.

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If they’re going with 3.0.1 systems and balancing, it’s bad for the game. Looking forward to my exorcism critting on Forsaken players though.

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