It was popular opinion that the Alliance won the war in Mists, as the playerbase was part of the rebellion and not the Warchief’s Horde.
I have no evidence except the wild fire that was the forums on that day.
I would buy one of those puppies in a heartbeat. Will it still fetch/roll over/etc?
“Why is your puppy named bacon?”
I said he was written inconsistently in Cataclysm. Overall he was a bad character. And again, Stonetalon Mountain is an example of him tripping over himself due to inconsistent writing.
You only mention Stonetalon, yet I have provided ample evidence of him being compatible with Stonetalon in Cataclysm, and consistent in his honor, like scolding Sylvanas for raising undead, telling her not to use the blight, his internal conflict after he found out his blade was poisoned, his deposing of Magatha and the traitorous parts of the Grimtotem, and dethroning a corrupt Dragonmaw leader.
I have not found however, him contradicting any of these things within the boundaries of Cataclysm.
And what did he actually do after Sylvanas disobeyed his commands? Nothing. No sanctions for the Banshee Queen at all. He wanted plausible deniability.
And let’s not forget that the attack on Gilneas was completely unwarranted. A sealed away nation that threatened nobody and Garrosh the genius tactician drove them straight into the Alliance.
Sylvanas: I won’t use it
Garrosh: walks away
Sylvanas: uses it, when he’s UNAWARE.
Really? And who would he answer to, in order for this plausible deniability to be a possible defense to his honor?
Please.
This is consistent with his character. He starts wars, fights them fairly. Like I said. He wanted a port.
Never has he stepped out of line in Cataclysm. In Stonetalon, where you mention him being honorable, even there he was fighting a war.
So you’re saying Garrosh didn’t receive any sort of reports about the battle? That he had no spies of his own to keep track of Sylvanas?
If things turned too badly, he could have thrown Sylvanas under the bus and said it was all her fault.
What’s fair about launching a surprise attack on a nation that doesn’t even know you exist? And while they’re dealing with their own equivalent of a biological attack.
I’m saying, nothing in the lore has ever been brought up in that area, so it does not exist. His knowledge of it, does not exist. His reaction to it, does not exist.
I don’t understand. As Warchief, he answers to nobody. And he is clearly disgusted at her, enough to occupy the entire undercity with his own personal guards. Your implication is false, and actually headcanon.
By fair, no superweapons. Surprise attacks? That’s a war crime to you?
And if they “don’t know we exist”, how does Garrosh know they exist?
You stated you were done with retail. So why does any changes worry you?
That’s your big counter? It’s never brought up so it never happened? So apparently Garrosh is a tactical idiot who can’t even control his own allies.
But he didn’t actually do anything to her. Because it wouldn’t take her much to Blight those guards and have them on her side. It was a slight slap on the wrist from the same person who threw a guy off a cliff for doing something very similar. How can that possibly be considered consistent writing?
A surprise attack on a nation that was dealing with it’s own internal crisis is nowhere near honorable. It’s a despicable and cowardly act.
What? No. They had no idea Garrosh existed. Or even the Horde in general. The last time the Gilneans saw any Orcs, they had been rounded up into internment camps.
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Imagine moving the factions to a cold war status. Maybe even allow characters to move through each factions areas.
I was thinking a system that says if you misbehave too much in a zone, the character is flagged in a wanted type situation where NPCs like guards will attack on sight if you’ve been running around causing trouble in the opposing factions zones. That way everyone can move about and team but there is still the feeling of war. Maybe certain NPCs are unfriendly towards players from the opposing faction.
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There is not a single word covering it, lore, book, game.
Yes.
As nothing was covered of his reaction, you cannot make this statement based on existing evidence. However, Sylvanas is a character that has always been subtle, under Thrall too. Are you going to say the same about Thrall? Or will you attribute this to Sylvanas’ skills at keeping things under wraps? I am curious of your answer to this.
We know why nothing happened, in a time of war, to the most prominent and nearly worshipped leader of the Forsaken, when she raised those dead bodies. She barely got a way with “without this, my people will die out”
His only response was for her to consider what the whole thing means. She is quite the asset, and is it really plausible to kill her there on the spot?
The same man who killed a lowly officer in Stonetalon for using a superweapon on innocents, got disgusted at the main Forsaken leader being involved in blight and raising undead. Who knew? Please don’t play around.
Refugees and other nations long entreated Gilneas for aid, but these unfortunates never so much as saw a Gilnean.
So I ask again, if they didn’t know we existed, then according to the above, how are we supposed to know they exist, being separated by that very same wall?
Outside the first RTS game and MoP the faction war will always be a temporary sub plotline, its fluff between big bads. It may be the premise of Warcraft but outright war is a burned out storyline. Skirmishes and conflicts of intrests will always play a role, however, and thats fine.
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This may be the best answer and compromise. Something similar to Vanilla’s or WoD’s Ashran’s fighting over resources style of this would be satisfactory.
That’s not a convincing counterargument.
What we saw is that he had no real control over Sylvanas. She disobeyed him as soon as he left. And apparently he has no way of keeping an eye on his own forces. And Sylvanas was more subtle under Thrall. She wasn’t going out and blighting a whole country when he was still in charge.
He was willing to chuck one of his highest ranking generals off a cliff for disobeying him. Yet he did comparatively nothing to Sylvanas when she took much more extreme actions.
Overlord is not a title for a lowly officer. Krom’gar was in command of the operation for taking control of Stonetalon Mountains. That’s not something you let a “lowly officer” do.
They knew Gilneas existed because they were able to talk to the citizens of Lordaeron who used to live right next door. You know, the Forsaken? Those people? They knew Gilneas was there. That’s how Garrosh knew it was there. What did you think Garrosh was ordering Sylvanas to do? Set up a picnic in an open field?
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If factions are dissolved, three of my friends will resub, so no problem.
Also can we have your gold if this happens?
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I’m done with BFA. I’ll be back to check out 9.0 but if it’s a flop then I’ll ignore that expansion and continue playing Classic. Unless I hear something really bad before the expansion drops that is.
Argument? It’s fact. What more do you want me to say about an empty void in which there is no writing? Make my own headcanon?
And Thrall had even less so. Things are objectively more tight for her under Garrosh, especially after the wrathgate.
She was attacking Kirin Tor, performing experiments on captured Alliance, and killing Alliance in Hillsbrad.
I’m sure if he faced unrest by chucking the desperate general wanting to prove himself off the cliff, he would have made a second decision, compared to Sylvanas, who is older than anyone in the Horde.
Emperor palpatine would have no problem killing an officer over someone like Thrawn or Vader, in fact in the canon comics he lets Darth Vader pick and choose whoever to make an example of in one scene to gain respect as he was new. They’re valuable, but not “about to cause civil or military unrest if deposed,” valuable.
Refugees and other nations long entreated Gilneas for aid, but these unfortunates never so much as saw a Gilnean.
If their former allies had no idea, the Forsaken had no idea.
After the Scourge, and Arugal, there’s no telling what’s behind that wall except for the assured uncivilized mess. Something to capture and take advantage of.
We’re both talking anecdotally. Unlike back in WoD, where Blizzard Watch actually conducted a poll that showed PvP participation was down (and still no one wanted to believe it; instead they attacked the site and the methodology), we don’t have a poll yet that reflects this. However, what I’m starting to hear from people is they realize how much a hamstring the faction war, as it is currently written, really is. They’re either tired of it or they recognize what position it’s putting the writers in to have to manage it and create content around it.
As I said in my first post, the first few expansions, it was much easier to keep the illusion floating, especially when we were still doing content that so heavily referenced the RTS games. I actually like the writing in places; the quest teams do the best with what they can and the cinematics are fabulous. Therefore I don’t think it’s a talent problem, but rather the problem of the elephant in the room (the faction war).
OK, so you can either go get Kaplan back – which I doubt is going to happen – or you look for other dynamic writers? I just said what I thought about those items … I don’t think creative talent is the issue here. It’s total game design, hurt significantly by the dead anchor that is an old faction war.
Well, we’ve got more than one issue: A big, big one is that back when the game launched, I was in my 20s, single with no kids and could survive on 3 hours sleep a night. None of that is true anymore. So if you’re going to resurrect the grindfests that early WoW turned into from time to time (although rep grinding for the insipid Pathfinder is about as bad now), who is your audience? I don’t think kids have that kind of attention span today, and I know us old(er) farts don’t.
That’s an issue comPLETEly separate from faction conflict or creative teams or anything else. The game is suffering death by a thousand cuts right now, but I don’t think they can pitch version 9.0 as “Once again, it’s back to war for the Alliance and Horde!”, and have people do much more than groan.
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We can see that nothing really happened to her though.
Nothing really happened to her though. Especially considering the fact that she directly disobeyed him right after he left.
But she wasn’t invading a whole country and blighting it’s people. She was being at least a teensy bit circumspect.
That still doesn’t change the very different standards that he had. Stonetalon? He kills someone for disobeying him and murdering innocents.
Gilneas? He doesn’t care about the murdered innocents, he barely even cares that Sylvanas ended up using Blight. That’s a huge difference in character, almost to the point where they might as well be completely different individuals.
Garrosh had no problem killing when it suited him. So why didn’t he do anything to Sylvanas? Maybe he could have killed Nathanos as a warning. Then we wouldn’t have to deal with budget Batman in this expansion.
But why bring an army then? Why not send in scouts first to find out what’s beyond the wall?
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