stratholme is the dungeon correct?
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Yes. There are two versions. The culling of Stratholme and then the version with all undead and fire.
i think its big enough to be a capital, but again it will have to be updated a bit.
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Absolutely so it’s one of those doubt that’ll happen hopes.
Gee imagine a better version of Battle for Azeroth that actually focused on resolving the Cata conflicts?
Maybe the Worgen seize Gilneas and Silverpine but the Forsaken consolidate their power in the Plaguelands. Then the Hinterlands and Hillsbrad turn into desperate war zones as the Forsaken try to sure up supply lines to their holdings and the Alliance try to secure southern Lordaeron.
You could also do crazy stuff with Kalimdor. Maybe the Horde obliterating the Alliance bases in the Southern Barens creates that War of Thorns Scenario and then Teldrassil’s destruction- while still cruel - would feel less jarring. Then the Battle of Lordaeron could be both a warfront and a raid like Dazar’Alor. So the exciting climax to a war between super powers could come at the end instead of the beginning.
And then Windrunner could come off like a mastermind for orchestrating all this death instead of a weird person with bad plans that fall apart because the centuries old ranger general and queen of the undead has a teenager’s temper.
Sigh
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The alliance help reclaim it shortly before the Forsaken side of the plot in Silverpine begins. From there, Darius and his forces (the Gilnean Liberation front) push into Silverpine in an attempt to create a sphere of influence. A buffer zone if you wish. Sylvanas has Godfrey risen and then has him (and his goons) kidnap Lorna. Who is then used as a bargaining chip against Darius. The deal is, Darius and the Gilnean liberation front will leave Silverpine and stay in Gilneas. In return, Lorna will not be turned into an undead. Darius agrees and Sylvanas lets Lorna go. Ivar Bloodfang is angry at this, so he still fights the good fight independently.
Which would explain how dragon cult rogues sneak through in the dagger chain for Wrathion to kill Lord Creed exists.
You can notice that when you look at the Cata lore only, the forsaken vs Gilneas conflict is set similar to the Korean War. The forsaken (backed by the horde) lets a blitzkrieg style attack on Gilneas. This makes the Forsaken North Korea and Gilneas South Korea (horde = USSR in this). After Gilneas joins the Alliance, Gilnean troops still in Gilneas get reinforcements from the Alliance (NATO). From here the alliance pushes the Forsaken out of Gilneas and deep into Silverpine Forest. However, reinforcements from Sylvanas and her Val’kyr (so China in this) help the forsaken forces repel the alliances advance and pushes them back into Gilneas. Unfortunately for Sylvanas, more alliance reinforcements arrive so she makes the decision to bring back Lord Godfrey and his minions in an attempt to create an armistice. Which the terms of said armistice I have said earlier.
However at the end of SoO, we learn that no-one has control over it and it got blighted to hell. Which never happens on screen as the finale of Gilneas is destroying the forsaken blight machines via a horde gun ship. And when the horde are able to make a second attempt, they get overrun by more alliance forces. Which horde players see while flying their way back to Sylvanas with Godfrey.
So we now have schrodinger’s Gilneas simply because blizzard needed to milk more drama from this, as seen in Legion and BFA between Genn and Sylvanas.
I do like the contrast between Forsaken and Gilnean architecture. One is based on more modern gothic elements. While the other is based on the Gothic themes in Victorian England. The gothic Victorian England themes matches well with Gilneas and their history with the Worgen Curse.
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One of the biggest issues with Blizzard’s writing, IMO, is the lack of resolution for stories that they start. Part of it is not wanting to go back and revamp old zones, but the other part is that (similar to the Tyrande’s vengeance thing) they are wholly content with really unsatisfying conclusions, or just moving on from stories they’re not exactly wild about. It leaves a lot to be desired.
I did a rewrite of the WoW canon/narrative sequencing, from Vanilla till the current stuff with some heavy rewrites included, and one of the biggest changes I suggested was a complete shift in how the Siege of the Undercity/Wrath Gate/Fall of Gilneas happened.
Gilneas would be invaded earlier (during BC), and then during WoTLK, when the Wrath Gate incident occurs, we get the siege of the Undercity with Varian and Genn at the helm, and not Anduin. It would be through this siege that the Forsaken lose the Undercity completely, and eventually resettle in the eastern sections of Lordearon, allowing the Worgen to take back Gilneas.
if you care to look at that proposed revision at all:
I’m not sure why people are mad. Gilneas has been a kingdom much longer than the 7 or so years a few of its citizens were afflicted by a curse.
Because I’m fairly certain the brand of fantasy worgen are selling is more savage beastman than tophats and cockney accents. The Victorian angle is a bonus but if I was browsing the create a character screen I think I’d go with worgen because werewolf.
Being told point blank that’s not particularly relevant in your own heritage quest definitely rubs some the wrong way. Personally it has me worried for a Forsaken one. Is it going to be wholly Lordaeron centric? Because I came for the spooky stuff not winging about a fallen kingdom.
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We are mad because the way Gilneans were introduced to WoW I that to be a Gilnean is to be a Worgen. Most of the Gilneans we see are Worgen. It has become a part of their identity.
For that identity to be thrown away as something that is just bad and needs to disappear after this generation of Gilneans die off is just horrible writing in my opinion.
I didn’t pick to play Gilneans because I wanted to be British Humans, I picked them because I wanted to be a werewolf. Being Worgen is their identity and the Heritage Quest throws that away.
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Exactly this!
It’s like if they make the Forsaken heritage quest about their past lives in Lordaeron, and not about their lives as Forsaken.
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And personally I wouldn’t mind it being explored in some detail. The Forsaken afterall made and maintained that Terenas Menethil memorial so at least a dedicated minority of them still very much identify with the kingdom.
But if the quest went “Yeah you’re Lordaeronians. That’s the main thing here. You know the whole undeath aspect that defines the fantasy this race offers? Not important” I’d be agog.
Now that I’ve said that out loud - Dear God that’s not how they’re going to weasel Calia in there is it?
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I imagine giving Gilneas back to the Alliance would most definitely spur the Horde whiners everywhere (especially this forum) to cry and moan en masse, and we can’t have that now can we?
As usual, Blizzard was putting the Horde’s interests first when designing this questline, but if that’s news to you then I’m afraid you’re going to be in for a loooong ride.
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Nobody on the Horde cares about Gilneas. Outside the BG we see it briefly in ruins in part of the Silverpine questline. Some allege the Forsaken now control it but that’s news to me. That certainly isn’t reflected in the game by any metric.
Seriously the idea that Horde players would be bothered by them doing anything to Gilneas is hilarious. If anything I’d be happy for a new enemy territory to rampage through.
Granted if they did that while not updating anything north of Greymane’s Wall I’d throw some toys from the crib but just by itself? Yeah sure do something with Gilneas it’s just a pretty zone you never have any reason to go to. It’s also so heavily phased with quest content that you can’t even make your own fun with it.
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Its not that just WoW that has this problem. There are still some loose plot threads from D3: RoS which seem to get unresolved since D4 has a massive time skip. Such as the scoundrels brother getting killed by his sister in law. To Shen’s arch nemesis escaping its prison. Blizzard could’ve easily made another expansion to D3 just using those two plot threads together.
It does annoy me when blizzard does that.
Not really. Prior to Cata, Gilneas’ coast was surrounded by Coral reefs, which make traveling by boat pretty hard to do, let alone enough in one spot to mount an invasion. Not to mention the greymane wall. Gilneas only had 1 real entry point and that was protected by a massive gate. Deathwing destroyed the coral reefs and the gate when he did the cataclysm. Allowing the horde to invade from land and by sea. Forcing Gilneas to fight a war on two fronts.
The reefs have always protected us from a coastal attack. The earthquakes must’ve opened a passage for the Forsaken ships.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kill_or_Be_Killed
Also Anduin was not involved at all with the Siege of the undercity during Wrath. That was led by Varian and Jaina. With Broll Bearmane and Valeera helping as support. Their target was Putress. However after killing Putress, Varian hears orc chants and chases after them. Which is where he finds Thrall, Vol’jin and Sylvanas in the latters throne room. Varian declares war on the horde for creating the blight in the first place. However, before he could charge in, Jaina iceblocks him and teleports the alliance forces out.
Anduin only started to get proper screentime with Cata (which said quest chain has been removed as of legion).
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I know absolutely nothing about Diablo/Diablo lore, but I get the gist: Blizzard sucks when it comes to conclusions.
Reread my post; it was a proposed revision.
A proposed revision about an event that never involved a character you wanted replaced at the time in question…
That is what i’m getting at. I think you are confusing the BFA attack on the undercity with the Wrath one. The wrath one was due to the wrathgate. The BFA one was due to Teldrassil burning. In your post you mentioned because of the wrathgate, Varian and Genn would attack the undercity (since the attack on Gilneas by the horde would happen prior to wrath), instead of Varian and Anduin (since varian was there anyway in the wrath one). However Anduin was not involved in the wrath one at all. So how can you replace a character that was never involved with the event in question?
Now if you meant replace Anduin with Varian, the same problem arises. For starters, Varian was already involved with the Wrath siege of the undercity, he was leading it alongside Jaina. Anduin was never involved period. So again, you can’t replace Anduin with another character for the event, because Anduin was never involved in the first place.
The point of a revision is to change the established events to better fit a narrative you feel works best. However it is important to make sure the changes you make actually make sense.
No, lol. What I was saying is that I wrote a complete revision of all of the narrative, not just BFA/Wrath. I’m not confusing the two - I know they are separate.
You may have misunderstood the post; it’s no worry.
Reread just this part here.
Just saying “reread” doesn’t do anything.
Anduin had no involvement with the battle for the undercity during wrath. So you can’t replace him with Genn. Instead you should replace Jaina with Genn. As it was Jaina that stopped Varian and the horde going at it after Putress and Vari died.
I’ve never once disputed this fact.
What I was saying is that in my proposed revision to the entire sequencing of WoW’s narrative (entirely non-canon, just my own personal wish list), I rearranged things so that:
A) Sylvanas invades Gilneas during BC, forcing the Worgen to join the Alliance at that point in time, rather than in Cata
B) during the Wrath era Battle for the Undercity, Genn and Varian would lay siege to the Undercity (not Anduin and Genn, as is the case in BFA)
C) And that Sylvanas would then blight the Undercity to destroy it, preventing the Alliance from claiming it.
You seem to keep ignoring the part where I say it’s a proposed revision, and not just me mistaking when lore events actually happen.
Yeah, I think you need to reread your original post and learn how to structure sentences.
Since this is all the one sentence, you are basically saying
After the wrathgate, we have the battle of the undercity, however instead of Anduin leading it, we have Varian and Genn.
There is one small problem, Anduin was not involved in the wrath version.
That is not an excuse to get something wrong like saying “I will replace X character, even though they were not involved in the original event”.