Windwalker needs better design

Classes Monk
1

In a sea of bad/boring mastery stats this one is the worst. If my new strike is different than my previous strike then it does more damage? Cmon for a class thats supposed to be a martial artist it feels just as clunky as a ret paladin.

Ever see an enhancement shaman fight? Its crazy they have lightning coursing through their body, no letting up, a flurry of attacks everywhere, windfury procs and wham just shear amount of strikes.

Fury warrior? Slash, slash sla-slash-slash like damn this is crazy and feels like their actually furiously attacking with anger, rage and reckless abandon.

Monk?

kick
…
kick
…
punch
…
…
kick

like is this class sedated?

The mastery is so boring and uninspiring, playing this class I never feel like its cool or fun to stack a whole lot of a certain stat. For instance if they gave me 780% mastery I would do more damage but it would still be stupid and not fun.

Did the developers forget this class exists? Are they happy with how things are? I’ve read up on Shadowlands information and it looks like literally nothings changed. And before people say ‘its still beta’ well for the last 4 expansions people have said that and beta builds have by and large made it into release.

I like the concept of a lone wandering badass martial artist, that when messed with tears you a new one but with the way the class plays, its mastery and its pace I feel like anything but that.

14 Likes
2

Don’t play a monk.

9 Likes
3

Yeah as post above said. If you’re looking for a class that gets good design its never monk WW every single expansion since creations had seriously bad scaling with mid to late expansion its always bottom barrel and it is more often nerfed when its already struggling. It does need a change but its had a bad track record at getting them… I mean for pity sake Survival spec one of the most clunky and disliked spec in hunters is doung miles better then ww atm and ww is the specs only dps spec…think about that.

1 Like
4

Has WW ever been good? Definitely seems to be one of those classes that unless the player almost exclusively plays wind walker, it’s not a good spec, and even then other specs do its job better (looking at you DH).

At least brewmaster is fun but imo needs a rework with stagger, it’s too strong.

4 Likes
5

Unless you’re a raid tank with half decent logs as brewmaster. Every guild wants a brewmaster!

6

I just wish MW monks could be changed back to 5.0 healing or WoD. I want Chi back. I want Uplift back. I want my char to feel like a monk not a broken restodruid/hpriest.

4 Likes
7

What?, no, WW’s mastery is one of the best and more fun masteries, this one actually rewards proper play without punishing you for things that are out of your control. It also really makes the “rotation” come together and actually feel fun and different than (for example) a DH that just mashes buttons to build/spend resources with little to no extra dynamics involved, WW actually has a much better flow and rhythm by weaving different abilities.

Miles better than most other masteries that are just a flat buff to some (or all) spells without any real gameplay interaction.

Ugh? I’m sure Ret’s mastery would also feel clunky as WW since you don’t even have Holy Damage. Good thing each spec uses their own mastery right?..

If you mean as someone who plays Ret Paladin you find WW clunky due to the mastery, honestly, you just need to practice a bit more to get a bit more comfortable with the spec, once you do it has a nice rhythm to it and feels very smooth yo play (i.e. not clunky at all) and the mastery is a key component to what makes the rotation feel fun and fluid.

That’s cool, I guess… Nothing to do with their mastery which only increases their damage while enraged.

8 Likes
8

One ability being different than the next ability is called a “combo”, which is the epitome of what a martial artist concept entails. But see, the mastery is not the problem of the specialization. The problem is that it had 100% of its mechanics removed.

For example, the resource generator was originally Jab, which was meant to generate chi and proc free Blackout Kicks and Tiger Palms, but the ability itself was removed.

Tiger Palm had an armor bypass effect, but that was removed, and it became the new Jab.

Blackout Kick had a HoT/DoT based on which side of the target you hit, but that was removed.

Rising Sun Kick used to have an AoE damage debuff (the target struck and all targets with 8 yards took 20% more damage from the WW), but that was removed.

Fists of Fury had a baked in stun, but that was removed.

Chi Torpedo used to do damage and healing, but that was removed.

WW used to have the option to change their auto-attack speed/damage by using 1H or 2H, but that was removed.

WW used to have Healing Orbs, but that was removed.

WW used to have Tigerseye Brew as a baseline burst ability, but that was removed.

The reason the spec feels clunky is because it is basically an incomplete class concept now. It is just a “put damage numbers on the screen” spec.

25 Likes
9

Good grief.

From someone that took up ww only in legion i had to no idea it was gutted this much. :frowning:

I’m saddened by this.

3 Likes
10

No, it was actually gutted much more. Spinning blossoms, grapple weapon, and avert harm were also a part of the kit. I’m sure I’m forgetting more as well.

And that’s just what they did to WW. Brewmasters and Mistweavers are also shadows of what they used to be.

15 Likes
11

You can really look at the changes to WW over the years and track the changes in class design philosophy, and how it has eventually culminated in a spec that is in such a weird place compared to where it started. That isn’t to say everything was perfect, there were some QoL changes which I think were ultimately positive, but overall I think the trend has been negative.

1 Like
12

You’re right, I actually forgot a lot of other abilities. Not to mention, nerfs.

More abilities that were outright removed/nerfed:

Legacy of the White Tiger (Raid/party Critical Strike +5% 1hr)

Legacy of the Emperor (Raid/party Strength, agility, and intellect +5% 1hr)

Grapple Weapon (30yard disarm, now a PvP talent)

Dispel Harm (8% heal and damage, generate 2chi, now a PvP talent)

Fortifying Brew(+20% health and Damage reduction, now a PvP talent)

Touch of Death’s 10% hp execute (now a PvP talent)

Leg Sweep: cooldown went from 45sec to 1min, the stun duration went from 5 seconds to 3 seconds, and the range went from 8 yards to 5 yards

Paralysis: went from 15sec cooldown to 45 sec cooldown

There are more utility nerfs but I don’t feel like posting them all

5 Likes
13

There’s a lot to be said about all the stuff you listed, because some of the changes are defensible, or at least understandable in context.

My issue is with the subtle changes in the rotation that began in WoD and were taken further with another huge step during Legion, which has now culminated in what we have in BfA and will have in SL.

2 Likes
14

The only nerfs I think were necessary were Touch of Karma and Touch of Death, which were the abilities that contributed to the spec being beyond brainlessly overpowered in early MoP.

And I guess when taking PvP into perspective, the magnitude of the Paralysis nerf was justified.

What destroyed the spec was removing the default Fists of Fury stun. In PvP, it doesn’t take any effort to avoid it anymore, and in PvE, it has no utility. It’s just a damage number generator. Leg Sweep didn’t have to get hit like it did either. But what irritated me the most was completely deleting the mechanics from Tiger Palm, Blackout, and Rising Sun Kick.

I could go on all year about this. Windwalker’s development has been an embarrassment since Legion. Otherwise I would still be maining the spec right now.

3 Likes
15

This is a good thing, it was kind of dumb.

That was a wall and not our spec. We had sparring as another defensive.

16

Oh yeah that too. The damage after applying full burst would take out half of anybody’s health lol.

17

It was called expel harm and it never a % based thing, those didn’t start until legion. Iirc only necro strike was an attack that was based on health %.

Good sir we weren’t that good in early game.

Maybe deserved to be nerfed but not to 45 seconds, they could’ve left the mechanic that if you cast it on a target from behind you get more time. Could have made it:

30cd and if you land it while behind the target the cd is reduced by 15 seconds.

18

the para change, and losing healing winds on transcendence really hurt ( on top of its CD being doubled… ). god i miss that heal so much. losing strike of the windlord also really stung.

probably one of the only good changes that happened in BFA was the CDR mechanic on BOK being added. dance of chi-ji and fury of xuen were pretty great too. and glory of the dawn we have had since the second half of WOD, but blizz just keep repackaging it and giving it back to us in rented power systems. it was a talent for a hot minute in BFA alpha then they took it away again.

19

Sheesh. If you don’t like the mastery don’t play it. If you dont feel as though you do good damage you’re probably not as good at the class than you think you are. Monk is incredibly popular in pvp and you will get punished on the meters if you cant control your hit combo management.

My opinion is because its in a good place. Which i think it is. The rotation is unique and is incredibly punishing if you suck at hit combo.

Id reroll if i were as salty as you guys are.
Good luck

1 Like
20

I have to do 99 parses just to barely beat people who are only in the 70 range. It’s the spec.

It’s strong let’s not confuse with popular.

Because monk is the least played class and WW is the least played spec

5 Likes