She should have done it later.
Heck she should do it now if she could.
2 Likes
This seems more right. Had he not left the Horde a lot of problems would have been avoided.
She was going to do more than just kill all of the Orcs. He recognizes his failures and finds himself in the same position she was in. She nearly crossed a horrible line and was stopped before she could.
Destroying an entire city filled with Children and civilians is not something the Alliance does, thankfully. That is something monsters like Sylvanas do without a second thought.
While I certain understood Jaina’s reasoning and might have done the same, I still dont think it would have been the right thing to do so, certain not something to criticize Jaina on but not an action that would have yield the result desired.
1 Like
I really don’t see it as a horrible line.
She was completely within her right to retaliate and wipe them out.
And then she would be as bad as Garrosh and Sylvanas. Just because you can, doesn’t mean that you should. There’s a difference between retaliating and genocide. You might as well tell me Sylvanas was right to burn Teldrassil because it was a military port.
12 Likes
The difference between Orgrimmar and Teldrassil is that in one city they were executing civilians for fun while in the other they were living peacefully and even gave some part of their land in an effort to forge lasting peace.
The way Blizzard has presented the Orcs is monstrous. And I usually kill the monsters root and stem in my single player games.
If WoW was a single player game the Orcs would have been wiped out a long time ago.
4 Likes
This isn’t a single player game.
I would suggest going to play a single player game instead if that’s what you’re after. Blizzard isn’t affected by feedback on this Story Forum, and if the game isn’t what you want posting here won’t actually change that.
4 Likes
They both have civilians that have done nothing. Jaina attacking Org would have been just as much of a war crime.
My problem is not with the ways Orcs look. My problem is with Sylvanas and those like her who act like what they are, monstrous evil creatures that are a danger to all.
That would have hurt the sales too much.
A better advice would be that since this is an MMO Blizzard should not use Single Player story tropes that demand single player story consequences.
14 Likes
This I agree with.
11 Likes
I agree with you there, but that’s not what we’re going to get.
Every orc in Orgrimmar is a only one generation from the first Horde.
Heck Saurfrang was part of the first Horde and he is still doing first Horde shinanigans.
Their entire race seems to be designed for doing evil things because they keep doing it.
Its what the orcs do I take issue with. I have been questing in BFA. I see what they are doing.
When have the orcs done anything good or humanitarian out of the goodness of their hearts rather than “They threaten me. Orc smash!” ?
2 Likes
That means very little to me. Otherwise you should avoid Death Knights, Demon Hunters, Warlocks, and even the Dark Iron.
There is more than just the Orcs within the Horde. Narrow vision will get you killed.
We were talking about orgrimmar specifically.
But fine I will accept your attempt to move the goal post.
But feel free to show me where the Horde has ANY semblance of a redeeming feature.
1 Like
What doesn’t make sense is Jaina falling right back into her old self and eliminating all character progression. She even admonishes Genn later for not trusting the Horde. What the hell happened? And Baine may have returned Derek, but Baine never stood in the way of the Horde when it came to Theramore or Teldrassil.
It’s fine if she doesn’t let rage control her as it shouldn’t, but Jaina also shouldn’t be so friendly. “We’re doing the right thing, but this doesn’t make us friends or allies” would make a lot more sense.
5 Likes
And it’s home to more than just Orcs, always has been.
It’s hard to tell where the goal post is because you are moving it more than I am.
I have a feeling that concepts of Honor will fall short. I also have a feeling like acts of rebelling against a leader who proves to be a monster does either. Then again, look at what got Jaina to fight along side Thrall and Baine again.
So if one country decides to nuke another country the soon to be nuked country should just throw up its hands because if they fire back they’ll be just as bad as the other side?
You’re essentially saying that the bad guys should always get off with a slap on the wrist because taking any real counter measures will make you just as bad. It’s pretty much what’s going on with the horde and alliance now. The horde does something crazy evil, the alliance slaps them on the wrist. The horde goes right back to do something crazy evil because hey, they’ll only slap us on the wrist if we lose. And every time we go evil they get weaker and weaker each time, eventually they’ll win.
8 Likes
Warcraft III.
And as a result Thrall and Malfurion even are shown to be friends still at Mount Hyjal when Ragnaros wanted to burn Nordrassil, and that was while Garrosh was invading the Night Elves’ lands.
The Orcs have multiple facets, and not all Orcs share in the crimes committed by some, and you cannot condemn them all to genocide because of that.
8 Likes
Be more specific.
I literally said When have the orcs done anything good or humanitarian out of the goodness of their hearts rather than “They threaten me. Orc smash!”
This was no act of charity.
You have yet to show any of these many facets.
1 Like
So I wouldn’t call the conversation they had as Jaina begging, but this isn’t really the main issue I see.
Thrall left before Garrosh took the throne. He was no longer a part of the Horde, instead working to save the world then retiring to make babies. He had nothing further to do with Garrosh’s actions after the point he left. Jaina knows this. Jaina’s not racially biased against orcs; she has serious issues with the Horde itself, to whatever degree the writers decide on for any given quest.
Jaina’s not talking to the leader of the Horde. She’s asking for help from her old friend Thrall. And she’s doing so with the knowledge that Thrall is basically idolized by significant numbers of the Horde. And that Thrall has basically said “this is all ultimately my own screw-up.” Jaina’s basically saying “maybe we can work together and you can help repair some of that damage.”
If anyone has begged a Horde leader to help them when it made little sense to, it’s Anduin begging Saurfang way in the beginning of BfA.
6 Likes