For me, delves and +10 could also drop mythical itens, I don’t care whether or not some content is easier or more difficult than another, I would just like to do the content I like and receive the best rewards too.
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I agree that it is strange for delves to be a pillar of endgame with 0 access to myrhic track gear. I feel like there should be some ways to get an m track piece from delves in vault (2 12s is one m piece of a level 12 delve map drops an m track or something along those lines )
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Simple answer they’re not hard enough as is and the restrictions bliz imposed on themselves for what delves are supposed to be prevents them from making them harder. The only tuning knob they’ve got is damage and health scaling, which in the case of delves just makes them more and more unbalanced as the level increases beyond 8.
I expect we’ll get gilded / myth track solo content eventually, it just won’t be delves.
Imo delves are still in their design infancy and I can see blizz designing them to become more complex, nothings stopping them from adding an affix or two at delve 8, 10, and 12
It is a crime that delves are easier for certain specs than others though.
I think the lack of mechanical complexity, option to do them in groups of any role combination, gaping chasm of a difficulty delta between specs, and lack of any mechanics that require players to optimise their output are major hurdles for that.
One huge aspect of higher end pve content is that you do not win simply by surviving, you need some level of performance optimisation to kill the thing before it enrages or your healers run out of mana etc. Delves as they’ve been designed and promised can be won simply by no dying and whittling down whatevers Infront of you.
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For me that’s the same as not wanting gear in the game, I would rather not have gear if it means that gear is simply a grind not a progression, just give people templates. This is why gear relation is different for many people, many people see it as the end goal while a lot of people moreover those more raid centric see it as a tool/reward for that progression.
Yes I mean the reason why you see people being unsatisfied from both sides is that this is a compromise, it will never make both sides fully happy. But it makes the world turn. Them adding more to one side could unbalance it too much, I think M+ has been favorized for a while a bit more balance and incentives to raids would do much good. Which for me translate to more loot/crests drops in raids as raid drops are anemic.
What? Its easier to kill the 1st 4 bosses on mythic raid than +10s. You got difficulty flipped in your reply here. I think both are viable ways to gear, m+ is just way harder this season due to interupt changes and requiring more coordination and comms which PUGs dont use.
This is only the case if you get carried. And you haven’t done it personally?
Doesn’t the upgrade system itself cause that issue and not from where you acquire the gear? Even just doing raid, non trinket piece of gear that drop from the last bosses can still be underwhelming since you would have used crests to upgrade to max ilvl already. Hell m+ risks that a whole lot more if you participate just a bit in mythic raid. All that time put into +10 and your vault is just pieces you already have better from the “easy” first raid bosses.
Yes the upgrade system makes items feel less rewarding.
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The people that have the mindset of doing it for the challenge see the gear as a side reward. The people that do it for the gear and the challenge is in the way see it as the path of least resistance.
It’s easier to coordinate 5 PUGS than 20.
(Remember there’s an added artificial difficulty due to timer and death counter)
You’ll get elaborate explanations from mythic raiders, but it boils down to something very simple:
Mythic raids are bad content, and the only reason a super majority of people even engage with them, is the gear advantage that comes from them. Take that away, and there would be dramatically less participation in mythic raids, it would drop even lower than arena participation by an order of magnitude.
Deep down, they know where that leads, it leads to defunding of dev time for their content. Most of the dumb elements of mythic raiding(raid lockouts instead of boss lockouts, and 20 man static size) are sub elements of that behavior. People who obsess over guilds, knowing that if theres no mechanical reason to join, that many won’t.
Every raider or m+ player / pver should be required to do PvP for their gear
Simple. When my raid group killed M G’huun after 330 attempts… it was somewhat of a let down when we disenchanted most of the gear. So long as the gearing paths are on the same track, when one path erodes the other that impact will be felt and complained about.
The ONLY way to fix that is to separate the gear paths and that has been suggested time and time again like they did with PvP gear (either through scaling like WoD PvP gear or hard separation like old PvP power systems). Sadly, the majority would rather not have to deal with acquiring two armor sets for the content, and also prefer to have the ability to acquire their gear from multiple sources. So long as this is the case, raiders and M+ players will be at each others throats when one loot source out paces the other.
What I did find somewhat ironic though… as someone who prefers raids… is when M+ players started complaining about Delve loot. It was genuinely hilarious to hear them throw out the exact. same. complaints. against delves that raider have had about M+ since Legion.
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really? how?
unless you are an active PVPer, nobody’s gear affects you at all.
if this is the example anyone has in mind:
“the raid leader will only invite people who already have mythic track gear which I don’t have because I refuse to do m+”
then you are not actually a “progression raider”.
because if you were, then your goal is not gear, but to down the bosses in the raid.
gear is a tool to accomplish that goal and any serious raider - mythic raiding being the most serious that there is - will do whatever is necessary to get the gear they need to down the boss.
if progression raiding is really the most difficult content, then m+ and/or delves should be a piece of cake for you, as a progression raider. you should be thankful that blizz has built a fairly streamlined pathway to getting the gear you need to clear the mythic raid.
mythic raiding gear is still the best gear you can get. and most, BiS trinkets are raid trinkets. I have yet to see a crafted or delves trinket even make the b tier of lists. there are a small handful of m+ trinkets that are top tier. most of the s/a tier trinkets are from raiding.
so, the reverse is actually true.
if you are not raiding, you have a disadvantage relative to those who do.
but that disadvantage is still meaningless. your ilevel does not prevent me from doing anything in the game. it simply dosn’t matter to me. at all.
It almost seems more like tradition at this point…though after a while you either play the game for overcoming challenges or burn out I think.
Loot lust fades pretty quickly. Usually those people becomes obsessed with logs eventually.
None of groups are worthy best gear should drop from pet battles 
I already explained how.
You setting some arbitrary judgment evaluation on whether someone is worthy to be catagorised as “X” is totally irrelevant to the discussion. Which means the entire rest of your post is rendered moot.
This is an MMO. By definition, what others do in the game has the potential to directly and indirectly impact your gameplay regardless as to whether you partake in the same content or not. See: AoE nerf caused by m+ runners that hit the entire playerbase etc. Countless examples to enumerate here.
This is just basic common sense and only people gaslighting themselves will fail to understand this basic principle.
oi thats a stereotype and stereotypes are bad.