News flash: the case can be made that all epics are welfare epics. And you still can’t get gear for losing games if there is a rating requirement…
Starting from zero seems like a bad change to me.
lol I’m sorry but why do you need to see math for my point to be correct? The more people that are in your arena bracket, the higher the ratings go. If I make 15 points per win against someone who is the same level as me, and it decreases the further apart we get, the limiting factor to high ratings is how many people are participating.
Let’s just say the bracket is your team and my team. We start at 1500, Your team is way better than mine, you beat me and now you’re 1515 and I’m 1485. You beat me again, now you won 12 points so it’s 1527 to 1473 you beat me again… you see the pattern. You aren’t getting very high.
But if our bracket had a million teams in it, there is a TON more teams to get points from, pushing ratings higher. Go look at any private servers. You will see teams with 90% win ratios and hundreds of games played but their rating is 2.1k.
This is how the elo system works. You need teams to get points from in order to get the ratings higher.
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Almost every other system except maybe honor epics requires you to actually win/accomplish something. Arena epics are the exception in that you can get them while literally never winning a single game.
I think the intent for the current-rating requirement (if its even actually a thing) was to prevent people getting carried one time and buying them, but if it’s actually implemented like its worded it would be pretty awkward so I’m not sold on that.
-My other mount is a scarab
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I’m not worried about players who arena all the time who get hardstuck, I’m worried about the casuals who make their teams to get the free 1500 rating points that will no longer be making these teams at all because they start at 0 rating and don’t want to climb that high ON TOP OF the gear change which will murder the casual quers in arena, which causes issues for everyone involved.
That’s fine. PvE Andys can PvE for their gear. As they should.
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And that’s the mentality of someone who doesn’t understand how the arena system works. You need these people in your brackets. If you don’t the arena system collapses and the ratings become jank. Rank one teams sitting at 2.1k and getting qd against people at 1900 when they should never even be seeing each other in arena at all.
The more people you have in your system the more accurate your rating distribution is.
You are just arguing against tbc systems and how you don’t like them, that’s not what the point of tbc is.
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Ignore bearhands, he can’t come up with any solid argument and is just being a Yes Man for the sake of being a contrarian.
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Yeah I had to ignore him, clearly just a troll.
You can get carried to pve gear with pretty terrible performance, or just mindlessly farm out profession gear…
The early season PvP gear was never an issue in vanilla tbc. And it’s really not a bad thing if they get more people to participate. It takes a loooong time to get a weapon off of spamming losses. I don’t really have a problem with rewards for participating over a nearly 2 month period (less for a 1h) consistently.
Also: scarab mounts are welfare mounts.
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You are arguing that it being harder to rank is a bad thing. It’s actually a very good thing for the game, and arenas in general.
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For who? People that were just going for it to get items in S1 since they matched up well with pre-raid Bis? There is nothing stopping you from making a joke team to screw around and blow up with some burst comp that wont get glad.
The idea of Welfare Epics came from how easy power level was acquired from people that did not raid. Badgers were the main driver of this. Feel free to make an argument the game is too easy though to back up everything is welfare though.
So your basing your entire argument on the idea of “because of private servers there are not going to be enough teams for people to get the gear”? Is there even one private server that can compare to the total number of people playing Classic at this time? You know in the hundreds of thousands of people and not the 10s.
Even rationing the people that DO pvp you should still have more than enough people under current system to get rating.
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His argument is that there will be too many people with the same ratings, creating a bottleneck once you get to 1800+. Somehow only the good players getting the good gear is a bad thing.
Oh, and that PvE Andys can’t get their free epics with their instant 1500 rating for playing 10 games.
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Even with Bottlenecks as the players shake out and there own Personal MMR moves up there should still be enough time to get to the items they want, if they can get to that point. I also have no doubt that if it is mathematically impossible for people teach the rating the system will be adjusted. I just dont believe it mathematically impossible when the potential pool of Classic TBC is as deep as it is. Including all the people from Arena Servers that just want to compete here
That part i did figure out already 
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No it’s not. Stop looking at this from an elitist standpoint and look at it from a game design standpoint.
When you make stuff that’s a lot harder for casual players/players who can’t push this rating high, what do you think is going to happen to this system? It dies.
When casuals get no benefit at all from it they don’t power through this, they literally just stop playing it. If they stop playing then get ready to just see the same teams over and over and over again, and when they log off good luck finding a q, they will be terribly wrong.
Think about this as if we are talking about pve. Let’s imagine for the raids in retail they just come out and say “ok guys no more welfare gear, if you want gear from pve, you HAVE to do mythic raiding”.
What do you think is going to happen to raiding? People going to power through it if they are casual to get what they want? No they will quit. Maybe this is ok for pve because you can still find a guild with the same goals as you, but why this is so bad for arena is because if people quit, you can’t play it. That and if people quit, you can’t push high ratings.
This is not a ‘good’ thing. Tbh I’m more upset about the arenas starting at 0 than the rating req for gear tbh. But when you put both these changes together you are basically murdering off your whole casual playerbase.
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Will be really interesting to see the level of participation arena gets with these changes. My own anecdotal experience is it seems to be turning away a lot of non gladiator players.
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No I’m using private servers as an example to show you how ratings work with populations of people participating in arenas.
I don’t need a sited source for someone to understand that if you remove 50% or whatever of your playerbase from participating in arena that it will cause these issues. You were asking for some sort of proof so I gave you some.
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Imagine making a comment like that while accusing someone else of not understanding the system…
Thanks for pointing these issues out. I think it’s incredibly important that if we get nothing else, we at least get teams reverted to the original starting rating of 1500. It was totally normal and fine for casuals to remake their teams each week for points, and as stated, it provides a much needed buffer zone between low and high-rating players.
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No it will mean even some good players won’t even get this gear because the pool is so low. Also why are you so afraid of casuals getting gear lol. If you are so good then the gear the casuals have shouldn’t matter because you’ll beat them either way.
This doesn’t just effect gear it also effect titles. This could be the difference in 300 teams getting glad, and 10 teams getting glad. I won’t be getting glad this season so this doesn’t matter to me too much, but when these negatives come out it just makes more and more people stop playing the arena.
And dead arenas is a no bueno. I’d rather have every casual in the game have a full set of pvp gear than have a dead arena system
Also just to restate this, my MAIN beef is the teams starting at 0. That 100% needs changed. The gear req are whatever
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I was going to play TBC solely for the approachable arenas. This might change my mind entirely.
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