Let me try this again. Mernna’s idea was a what if situation predicated on the whatif idea of Anduin reprimanding Genn, with Mernna positing that Genn would rebuttal the reprimanding with why what he did was a good thing.
But Anduin did reprimand Genn, and as far as we know Genn did not object it the way Mernna thought he would, so Mernaa’s very idea was unfortunately on the baseless side.
What I was bringing up about Mernaa’s point had nothing to with Saurfang or whatever it is you keep trying to bring up.
And then you go and declare Imerus as not actually participating the the spirit of the discussion. You shouldn’t throw rocks in a glass house.
As people have pointed out, Sylvanas failed Garrosh’ mission. Garrosh wanted a port. Sylvanas did not get it.
I do not think either of these indicate that he would have acknowledged Skovald. I’m not even sure Skovald actually qualified as having completed the trials, either, as Yotnar called Skovald out on it, yelling at him “The gods will not tolerate your actions, vrykul! You will answer for your heresy!”
I especially think this as Odyn sends you to kill Skovald twice even before he allows you into the Halls of Valor, the second time being at the top of the Gate so Valor, but the first was the very first quest you get from Odyn while calling himself Havi, where he tasks you to collect the Tideskorn Champion’s heads, with the Tideskorn Champion being Skovald, but just wasn’t there any more.
I don’t recall the Horde actually contributing anything of noticeable value in Legion. Which obviously has been fairly a lot of Horde fans’ complaint about Legion. But likewise, I do not buy this idea whenever it comes up that Sylvanas saved the world by calling a retreat. Especially now that we know that Vol’jin might have been possessed by something since before getting stabbed at the Broken Shore and telling Sylvanas to retreat.
To me, those sound like, ‘if you do it, you get it’. Otherwise he would not have needed to make those appeals. I find them indicative enough. And to be fair, I think it likely to be like Helya. There might have been some greater force enforcing such things.
To me that sounded more like bluster in regards to his disrespect. Odyn could have smote him when he showed up if he really wanted to.
Again, I don’t think Odyn wanted him to win. Just that it seems that he could not take direct action. That if it came to it, he would have to deal with him winning.
The horde was being crushed. If they wouldn t have retreat,the legion would have destroy them and could have surrounded the alliance without them knowing and a retreat from the alliance would have been way harder.
Sylvanas saved the horde this day and the alliance too since they were warned by the horn. While it is mostly class hall that did everything after that, bot side still contribute in suramar and the alliance did help on argus.
Or the sky remain clear and the Alliance trump card, the Skyfire, managed to bombard Gul’dan properly. Hell, the cinematic showed it mowing nearly all those large demons he summoned in front of us.
And you keep ignoring the fact that Anduin did not reprimand Genn in public, he did not even do so in council.
Do you even understand the concept of a reprimand? That’s when you make it an official point of order, a public notice that you rebuke a subordinate’s actions. This DID NOT HAPPEN. So from the Horde or any outsider, or for that matter most Alliance citizens, Genn DID get off scot free for his mischief in Stormheim.
Anduin chose not to subject Genn to the humiliation of an official reprimand so he kept it in private.
They are not ignoring that part. They are saying that it is irrelevant because Mernna’s point (which they were responding to) wasn’t about perception, it was about what actually would happen. And that what actually happened is not in accordance with that with that.
Where is that Mernna’s point? Unless there’s something hidden in the thread, reading the OP with it’s edit from 2 days ago the point seems to be “Genn did nothing wrong! And if anyone tried to say so in game he could just lie and shame them all and they’d have to agree and blame Sylvanas.”
Basically, they were saying that if the Horde used Stormheim as a rallying crying, Anduin would reprimand/investigate, and Genn would react a certain way. But we already know Anduin reprimanded him and Genn responded a specific way, irrelevant of the perception. Genn never gave any seemingly strong defense of his actions. Just accepted the rebuke.
Is that because he was ashamed at what Anduin said to him in private, or much like the orders not to attack unless it was necessary, he ignored Anduin as while he may be the High King he hasn’t shown the backbone to punish Genn for disobeying his orders?
It’s an excuse enough for me. Armageddon was at the door step of Azeroth, and the Alliance was more than happy to attack and waste resources and man power that should have been better spent fighting the Legion.
Is armageddon also an excuse for Sylvanas to go on a private quest to further her own personal agenda while jeopardizing the very mission that brought us to Stormheim in the first place?
Horde or Alliance, the mission was to obtain the Aegis of Agrammar, not enslave our titanforged allies’ forces. It doesn’t help Sylvanas’s case that she was making bargains with one our many enemies on the Broken Isles when Greymane decided to attack, granting vindication to his cause.
This is why I’m sad that this topic didn’t get more debate in-universe. There’s so many interesting angles, opinions, and character interactions that it could have caused!
We get little mention of it after the fact. A fleeting reference in BtS, where we learn Anduin forcefully rebuked Genn for it.
Then, inside Saurfang’s mind, in A Good War. Saurfang thinks it was bad and a sign of future Alliance aggression.
I think it could have been used more to make the point clearer. But in universe, it seems to have been used enough. It is a major catalyst in convincing Saurfang that Sylvanas may be right.
Regardless of the head canon and hypotheticals some forum posters like to throw on the situation, the effect of Genn’s ambush at Stormheim was enough to convince Saurfang and get the ball rolling with gusto.
Maybe it is too understated, and Blizzard should have hammered that point home. They subtly introduced that narrative point as a view into Saurfang’s thought process. Instead of the usual speech or battle cry.
There could have been more discussion about Stormheim, but when it comes down to it, it ended up being enough. Even as a mere recollection, it helps seal the deal for Saurfang about the necessity of war.
If its to get the ability to make an infinite amount of undead (Something the DK’s were also doing) that would be a valuable assist to combat the Legion in the off chance EVERYONE COULD DIE. Than the answer is yes.
It’s not really infinite if you run out of corpses to raise, and demons by nature can’t be raised from the dead with necromancy.
Not really, they were just going after a few select people to become the new horsemen and a few select dragons to be weapons, not an infinite army.
That’s not the lore explanation for it, she didn’t do it for any “greater good”, she did it for herself to consolidate her own power. Nothing more.
Also, an army of zombies isn’t going to be nearly as effective as an army of living, competent, heroes, regardless of circumstance. She’d be better off fighting with the circumstances she has, then trying to fight within circumstances we MIGHT be in at some unknown point in the future.(the same stupid reasoning for starting the current faction war)
Why did she need to do it at such an early stage the invasion? If the goal is to prevent apocalypse, then what use is it to go create an apocalyptic world of undead for them? The goal is to save the planet, not further it into destruction.
How would having another Lich King be any better than the Legion simply destroying the planet?? Either way, we all lose.
It’s extremely relevant. If Anduin had publicly rebuked Genn or censured him in some way, that would have torn a major hole in the argument that Sylvannas conjured in Saurfang’s mind.