Alright. I get that you and quite a few other people in this thread hate me and my community. That’s fine. We don’t see eye to eye, we never will. And that’s OK, people have different opinions. It’s reasonable. You hate elves and people that play them, we get it. Regardless, we’re not going to change our opinion either, and I have my points on my thread. People can choose to just disagree flat out all they want and say other things, as they have been. I’m not going to argue or respond to anything else you’re saying, aside from this one thing.
If anyone takes anything out of what we’re trying to do here and now, I want to make it clear. And I’m not speaking for everyone, just me and those others that have agreed with me, but most if not all of my community are not Twilight fans. I want to make that extremely clear, here and now. Twilight butchered vampire mythos and lore, I personally despise the series a lot. We’re not Twilight fangirls. We want brutal but regal monsters.
Here are some examples of vampire series that depict them in a way that I like:
Castlevania; my favorite on this list, the Netflix series did a wonderful job.
Underworld
Hellsing Ultamite (Alucard); this one is a mature series, lots of gore.
So if you get anything out of this at all. Anything. It should be that we are not fans of Twilight and think the series is terrible (most of us). I don’t care if you hate us, I don’t care if you vehemently despise the idea of them as an Allied Race. That’s fine. But please realize that no, we’re not asking for anything even remotely similar to Twilight. Thank you. (Also like I said in my thread, we’re not asking for them in place of or instead of other races >.>)
It could be applied to them. And if that happens then I will back San’layn as a playable Allied Race. Due to the San’layn having one lore update since WotLK(that only one faction knows about) I don’t think they should be an Allied Race.
It wouldn’t exactly make sense for them to pop out of nowhere and say “We’re Horde now!”
Fallyn did say in her thread that she isn’t asking for Sanlyn in place of an allied race that makes more sense, but was kind of presenting it as an idea.
Nowhere did I mention that they would be implemented in place of another Allied Race. I was trying to say that I will not support San’layn as an Allied Race ever until they receive updates to their existing lore and shows how and why they would join one of the current factions that makes sense.
The only thing I care about with Allied Races is the question of “does it make sense for them to join this faction?”
They won’t happen because you only see them as an alliance player. AFAIK, the horde player characters are not aware of any potential alliance between Horde and San’layn. Horde doesn’t see them at all in BFA.
thats why i say essentially, not exactly the same thing, if you want an undead elf who drink blood you can rp as a DK fine.
cure how now you tart to look at differences but before everyone is the same.
Next expansion? why they would bring up more evil undeads if Sylvanas s gone? they only opportunity is now, not in the next
if they didn’t show up now, what are the hints of then in the next?
any sources saying they are good? cause working with the LK and arugal seems pretty evil
when the entire race is showed as evil canon folder is what they are, your assumptions are just that, assumptions, and nothing implied otherwise.
how she can possibly disprove something, she is even more evil than him, lmao
and again, did you just ignore the part that say they don’t have this necessity? they can eat other things FINE, they can use corpses of alliance soldiers to eatach limbs or other things, but they don’t have the mandatory necessity to do that, like is stated, some of then to not even at, and magic alone sustain then
living flesh is living flesh, like is said they eat other living things.
we do know there is no much DKS, they are a heroic class, of specific groups, they can’t be that numerous
and if a race is even less than a bunch of a class, they can’t be playable, Blizzard hammered the population problem along other all the time.
it don’t
no i can do that, but your “proof” being a battleground is laughable.
most of then are rogues and warlocks and again, tis dumb to believe they would to their magic in front of everyone and not hidden in their tends
go back in time when thrall banned warlock arts.
because they have a curse worse than forsaken and DKS, are more evil and unstable than both, and cannot be controlled like Dks, and by now are inherently evil unlike forsakens.
We know it was few, it was just Kaelthas group, and most of then flee out to outland.
its ttoally relevant, you think they don’t don’t make then irrelevant.
Class is in a minor scale, the lore is different, the gameplay is different, how they work is different, etc.
The game, the facts are there.
and until it proof otherwise, the facts is that they are evil, end of the history.
you are making things up saying there can be Good sanlayn because “i said so”, when every single one of then showed to be evil to the bone.
sure they will, who don’t want to get a curse to become a bloodsucker evil undead.
as far as we know what low is neromantic magic
Necromantic magic keeps them somewhat preserved, but natural decay still proceeds, just slower than normal.
the decay is inevitable, they die in time like other races.
are you not reading on purpose? because scale obvious.
im assuming because there is less than dks then they will not be playable because they are too few.
never said it was.
its literally what i wrote.
She is their saviors, not the forsaken, in their eyes.
and he didn’t chose sylvanas, most of the forsakens will stay with her
i do like vampires, im played vampire the masquerade for 6 years, in my home group, but im not blind to this entire situation.
Right now, how the context of the lore is is bad and coming from more elves is even bad
thats called sarcasm, you didn’t use earlier?
if you point an exemple of a good sanla’yn then we can talk again.
pointed wrong, but tis not a curse, tis the undead condition.
we are not presenting one, we are presenting all of then thus far;
in warcraft 1 orcs were evil, because is how all of then were showed, only in warcraft 2 they retconed that
same thing it will with sanla’yn.
because they don’t exist.
youa re kind desperate here, with some hope that someway somehow there will be a vampire elf good out there, thats sad;
It will be a retcon for the established lore anyway.
we do have proof of npcs using the bathroom, there is a dwarf in silithus who ask you for paper
but you are claiming that forsaken eat horde corpses, after they kill then, and its something that would happen frequently, yet not a single hint of that.
warlock is hard to learn, just a few exceptional can become one, the practice is banned and they do things on the shadow, it is few and it is unnoticed or the population would freak out about the dark magics;
it don’t need to have actually numbers to proof the marjory, like i said, blood elves pass through a genocide, suramar passed trough a civil war, and undeads are living orgrimmar in favor;
this is half of the horde, if you think this half is more populous than the other, then there is nothing to do to help you here.
Lets see you trying to say how they are marjorty, against many tauren tribes, many orc clans, even more with the ones coming from draenor now, trolls and the zandalari empire
they actually did, the only one who didn’t was talanji who want to be equal with sylvanas.
never said it was.
yeah its just about being and hope, not actual lore and canon things.
yes because:
Dks is a class, not a race, minor scale, they can be aimed to the alliance.
Forsaken don’t need living flesh, and they can take corpses in the battlefield from the alliance, not from horde;
Sanl’ayn by now need living things, more constantly than the other, and they show to eat his own members when its lacking, and unlike forsaken, they all showed to be evil.
the elves who went to nortrend with kael’thas were few.
they are there recruiting and studying, its way more believe that a elf would chose to be a void elf than become an undead like you said.
we don’t need the first, and the secondis just blood and death magic.
provide some meaningful reasons why the horde would want then, that surpass their cons, like not meaningful numbers and unstable nature, that already are not covered from other races.
“not all are evil because i don’t think so”
there are many other allied races more lickely, who make more sense go first, pretty much even the vulpera make more sense.
why they would want to join the horde now then
and pl not the “muh family” thing
The Horde needs allies. This is true.
But to be worthy of a place here, those we recruit must have honor in their hearts. If they lack it, their presence only diminishes us.
-Eitrigg
usually you are purposely, just forgetting everything else.
the official was none, now we have 2, it already passed the quota
don’t try to distort my words, i’m saying right now its impossible and retarded to happen, much more lore need to be builded and retconed over the years so they can at least make sense to join without an a*pull.
and there nothing implied that they could possibly join, cause they are villains and evil gus used to be raid bosses.
there are races like Ogres, etherals, vrykuls, furborlgs, even Quilboars in the game prior than then, so, they can wait a few more.
yeah me too, but the game is oversatured with elves.
i know how you guy are, don’t like to wait, and want everything before anything else, thats why there are thousand of HE topics as well.
but i want a variety of elves first, not just elves.
Yes not all of then, but they do are a big part of it, pretty elves being vampires sounds about a twilight story, sadly.
not gonna happen if you take the elf as base of the vampirism.
See, i can’t get behind this when we have the elf behind
i could be totally fine with a troll vampire/blood troll mutated with hi’reek shenanigans even the original vrykul vampires, but another elf, right now, nope, not for me.
I am a big fan of vampires and werewolves, like i sai played vampire the masquerade, werewolf apocalypse in home groups, i like then, but i know that right now they do not belong in the horde of tribal races that have a big focus on shamanism.
im totally fine if after 2 or more expansions they build their lore acceptable so they can join, after other races join first, but those posts and threads just help to make then look like they are unanimously requested( when they aren’t) and other races will be pushed back, again
Yes not all of then , but they do are a big part of it, pretty elves being vampires sounds about a twilight story, sadly.
One extremely terrible movie doesn’t mean that an entire genre of fantasy characters are bad as a whole. Many movies have done Vampires right. Try to remember those.
Death Knights are a completely different type of undead than San’layn, so not really cutting it. Same way you cant play a Forsaken Priest as a Paladin.
Liches do not have a hunger curse like San’layn, Forsaken, and Death Knights do.
That’s an assumption you are having.
The very fact that they have showed up in this and the previous expansion after a long absence.
Well the Lich King is dead so he’s not controlling them and they’re in the wind, so we have no knowledge to their mindset or current machinations.
The “entire race” weve seen is less than a handful, which is to say we havent seen the entire race.
And how is she more evil?
They do have this necessity, it’s blatantly stated they crave flesh.
Yep, they can eat all the ice cream they want, does’Nt abate their curse or restore their bodies.
They can use those methods to put off their bodies’ decay, but that doesn’t address their craving of flesh.
They can eat anything they want, their Curse makes them crave Humanoid and Undead flesh.
The’yre number is x because we have no idea how many they’re are.
It didn’t stop the Void Elves and Mag’har and both types of Draenei from being playable, and if they later came out and said there’s actually more than seen they can do exactly the same with San’layn.
It pretty much did.
You can’t and haven’t, your lack of proof has kept your arguments a non-starter.
Which validates that other people are around and can see them and are aware they’re warlocks, people know what warlocks are, just because they don’t go summoning Doomguards in the middle of the city doesn’t change that.
Thrall “publicly” banning Warlocks is not the same as no one knowing they existed.
It’s not.
You need prove of rather than to continue to make things up.
How are Death Knights controlled?
Again, provide receipts stating they are inherently evil rather than to continue to lie.
And does the number “few” come before 12 or after 500?
It’s not, im bringing up the fact they are all Undead with a hunger curse.
Nope.
No, you made the claim, your provide facts, rather vaguely motion and demand others try to to prove your argument for you. A statement put forth without facts can be dismissed without facts.
That’s not how that works. “I met an evil orc therefore all orcs are evil until i meet a good orc” is nonsense. You have no facts.
I have done the opposite of making things up, as opposed to you. You are also making the unverifiable claim that they are all inherently evil without evidence whereas i am putting forth the possibility that they can be non evil.
points at fans of vampire fans, immortality, avoiding death from wounds, etc
This isn’t a sentence.
Not if they stave off the decay through replacing parts such as feeding, surgery, and magic.
What have you given me to read other than assumptions and falsehoods? Neither of us know the amount of Death Knights and San’layn active in the world but you continue to posit that you do with no proof.
You’re right, you are assuming.
You kept implying otherwise.
Not really?
And? What does that have to do with the Forsaken helping defend Silvermoon?
More assumptions you are having.
Which would be?
So lore is bad because vampire elves exist? All your arguments and falsehoods would be dropped when other Vampyr in game are shown.
Sarcasm has to make sense. You’re making the claim that vampires glow and so they must be elves… because elves glow? I have no idea where that’s from.
I’ve pointed out that we’ve encountered more evil Tauren than San’layn total. There’s more evil Forsaken than San’layn total. And yet you continue to make up the claim that they are inherently evil with no evidence.
I you’re blatantly ignoring official statements when they’re shown to your face i don’t know what to tell you.
“All them” being 6, so much vastly, infinitely more than one, and of those half-a-dozen visibly shown Lana’thel doesn’t help your claim.
So absolutely any change or additional information, no matter how small, is a retcon. Night Elves didn’t show up in Warcraft 1, are they a retcon?
Provide receipts stating this.
With no official statement that they have all be wiped out and will make no further appearances, of course i run on the possibility that more exist. The last two expansions have proved that possibly correct.
I don’t think you even know what the word retcon means. Have the developers said there’s no more San’layn or that they’re all inherently evil? No? Then having more show up and even have some not be evil is not a retcon.
Blizzard does love their stuff… Freehold… shudders
The possibility is more likely than it is not is what i state.
The former does not prove the latter, point out where it states their numbers.
You kinda do, that’s how that works.
Which would reduce their numbers true, numbers you have yet to provide.
I don’t make stuff up about populations cause i dint have any sort of population numbers? Seems pretty basic.
You want me to do what you are doing and make stuff up? Because neither of us have actual numbers to work with.
Hmm, those were some of the earliest things that i did so it’s possible i didn’t catch it. But as you point out Talanji didn’t, and currently playing a Demon Hunter and it’s campaign fresher in my mind i know the Illidari haven’t.
You flip/flop between game and lore, especially in regards to playable races and classes.
And what Lore do you have to disprove any of the possibilities? None.
Again, assumption on your part.
And so could San’layn.
So the Forsaken killing and eating someone is not worse than the San’layn drinking a bit from them?
Can you point out where it’s stated how much more they need than the others and how constantly they need it?
1 did this in a move of a desperation, 1 also resurrected her allies when she had the chance.
There is far more evil Forsaken shown than San’layn.
Few is not a number.
And what proof do you have that there’s not elves wishing to be San’layn? Cause Dreven’s scenario is just one example showing them undergoing the transformation.
It’ll help, and there’s all different kinds of blood and death magic. San’layn blood magic is different from blood troll blood magic and Mogu blood magic.
They need allies, and San’layn have plenty of powerful magics and willpower as those presented shown. Not to mention reuniting Silvermoon.
You mean lies you repeat.
Uh, the fact that they’re more allies? They’re not gonna say “oh we have undead no more undead or we have elves so no more elves”.
We have no official statement that they are inherently evil and I have posted official statements putting their curse on par with Forsaken and Death Knights.
Where has anyone claimed that people that want San’layn want them first or at the expense of other Allied Races? They haven’t. Getting San’layn doesn’t exclude other races.
San’layn: we offer our aid.
Horde: sure.
That would make for a great recruitment scenario to show off, like, every single other Allied Race so far?
Lying by omission is still lying, this is what i said:
Which would fit the San’layn if they were added.
You were right the first part, we have no quota, we have elves in the Horde, it’s possible to have more elves in the Horde, get over it.
I’m not, and yay, more slurs, oh you’re argument is going so well.
Which everyone wanting San’layn is calling for.
Again, Blizzard can’t retcon something you are making up.
Dark Iron Dwarves, Void Elves, and Zandalari Trolls say hi.
Or Blizzard can add based on whats being asked for and what’s thematic.
Not really.
Lol, you “know how i are”? I’m fine with waiting, and i never said i wanted them before other races. And High Elves are irrelevant here, we’re talking about San’laym, of which there is only one thread.
San’layn would definitely add some variety i’d say.
Dungeons and Dragons would like to have words with you.
I don’t think she was talking about Keebler elves.
Forsaken, Blood Elves, Nightborne, and Goblins say hi.
That’s oddly specific. Why can’t they introduce lore as they see fit?
That’s an assumption you’re having.
Having said, just make your own mega thread for the races you’d like to see.
We just got a troll as our last allied race. With their enmity with the Zandalari i think that would be a tough sell but with G’huun gone it’s hopefully feasible to salvage some.
Op has basically done a disappearing act, so why is this thread still alive if basically only the generic Iron Horde soldier is the only defense force left?
It was already dead for 23 days. Op basically was asking other people for their points because his own OP was bare and can be reduced to “well Ion said no to high elves so no sanlayn”.
Is Blizzard aware of the irony here with humans? Half of the Alliance is humans, you can make them short and stamp them with a different lore, but they are still human enough.
Human
Kul’Tiran
Dwarves
Gnomes
Worgens
And you can die and pretend all you like that you aren’t. But the Forsaken for the Horde. You are just an undead human.
And yet they say too many Elves? Lol. (Nightborne, Void, Blood, and Night Elf still don’t cover it.
![:poop:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/poop.png?v=6" ":poop:")
stuff… Freehold… shudders