And a Blood Elf shadow priest can be a Void Elf, they’re still an Allied Race.
Case still open for San’layn.
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You brought up Liches irrelevantly.
“They never brought them up again” in the story that just now happened?
We’ve seen 6. We’ve seen hundreds to thousands of Forsaken and Death Knights and Warlocks, we’ve definitely seen more than 6 evil ones of those.
Again, retcon is changing something established. Having a non-evil San’layn show up is not retconning anything.
You’re trying to demonize him further by throwing random negatives at them aren’t applicable.
No thats why i asked, we’ve had many iterations of the Horde.
Nope, San’layn and Forsaken and Death Knights are all in the same basket.
Easily:
From WoWpedia, the same source you use later :3
Not in this particular case.
No other Death Knights show up regularly throughout the game and expansions, theres even some on Island Expeditions.
The cave system in the middle of city with merchants and guards and the portal system that everyone used.
I have, using lore as well.
I haven’t.
The Horde regularly does stuff that doesn’t fit the “family” theme but we still work together.
So he done did an elf.
You say all them are untrustworthy based on one single example, i point out a single (technically three) example where the Blood Princess resurrected those loyal to her.
You keep stating this without evidence. Provide such. Vaguely motioning to “the Northrend campaign” means nothing.
Yeah, curses are bad, m’kay
There’s two more princes we havent encountered but have seen. There’s no telling how many we haven’t.
Not false in the slightest.
It doesn’t go against. You keep saying that since Death Knight and Warlocks are classes it’s “different” than Forsaken and San’layn.
I’m not, you keep making the claim all San’layn are evil, “screwed in the head”, but other undead are not.
A handful were evil, we haven’t seen all of them, we’ve seen more evil Tauren than we’ve seen evil San’layn.
Yep, they died for a third time. But San’layn can make more San’layn and a Darkfallen Orb can resurrect a fallen San’layn.
We have no statement that they are inherently evil, moreso than other undead. And we already have undead in the Horde.
I’ve provided evidence doing just that.
Shaman’s deal with elements, priests deal more with spirits.
You were more linking Goblin Shamans to other races Shamans when their form of it is very different.
You rarely get to choose your allies, and thus far Forsaken have been good allies for Silvermoon, helping against The Scourge and The Alliance.
Not really.
Receipts please.
I have done just that.
Vampires are cool. Fleshing out any race, not even playable ones, is also fun and entertaining.
People like vampires. People like having different races that aren’t just another race with different tattoos.
There was elves in Twilight?
Very relevant since you’re relying so much on numbers.
They are not.
Not really, also you missed the sarcasm. Using slurs doesn’t actually improve your argument.
Mine is the rant, daww. You’re the one making random claims without facts or evidence.
points up
What’s the difference between the San’layn and Forsaken curse?
They have done no such thing.
You claim facts, provide them.
I was making a joke based on your “Syl needs evil lackeys for evil plans” comment but apparently that doesn’t apply to the Horde Champion, the Horde, and the new Allied Races and allies.
From the same site i showed how i am not. Forsaken can eat those other things if they want to, even if it mostly tastes like ash. They need to to eat flesh to avoid breaking down.
Proving that all San’layn are inherently evil is much more arduous than “Forsaken have most likely fed on Horde members and Death Knights have caused suffering to avoid insanity at any point in time ever”
Providing facts and pointing out the similarities is not how one fails.
I have provided facts that back up my statements.
It happens regularly in battlegrounds, aside from that I admit i have no interest in going out of my way in proving something so expected, whereas you are making the much more extreme claims.
You aren’t doing that in the slightest.
The Royal Apothecary Society and Deathstalkers immediately come to mind.
??? Death Knights are undead that have to cause suffering to avoid losing their minds, Warlocks channel Fel and consort with demons. I’m not sure how you think they operate.
My guess of assumption was against your assumption stated as fact. As for “lore clearly imply”, receipts please.
You haven’t and you haven’t though.
Try telling that to the Illidari.
Ohhhhh that would be fascinating, like how the Shivarra pledged themselves to the Illidari. Fascinating.
I am quote adorable when i provide facts ^w^
Isolated incidents that are more likely than not to have occurred? Battlegrounds for starters.
Hopefully not, but they are not incapable of doing so however.
They don’t. I haven’t claimed they were good. I’m disputing your claim that they are all inherently evil, which would make them eviler than most undead.
And again using mental issues, which they have not shown any signs of, as a way to demonize them, but Death Knights and Forsaken are apparently exempt from this?
First and third are assumptions, for not tech that’s obviously not true. Blood magic has its uses, shown in game in various places, especially with the Darkfallen Orb and the Quill of Lana’thel that Scribes can craft.
They’d want family members they thought lost to the Scourge years ago back.
You have piled on assumptions and claims without facts against a possible allied race solely because you don’t like elves. The people who do want them however are very much keen on respecting lore, and having playable San’layn would not damage it in anyway nor require retcons.
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an sanl’ayn is essentialy a blood/high elf undead who drink blood and use necromancy, thats exactly what a DK is
A blood elf shadow priest just use shadow/void magic, unlikly a void elf
objection denied, case closed again.
thats relevant still, liches are evil alike.
after the Dreven fiasco they brought then again? no they didn’t.
thats about all of then ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
and what is established is they are evil undead creatures.
i don’t need to do anythin, he did himself, he eat his own soldiers, he and his kin don’t belong in the horde.
and all of then ebside one had the same nucleo
already showed many times they don’t.
they don’t need to do that, yous aid they need, thats a lie, they can do that, but they don’t have a necessity to just eat humanoid corpses.
It is “assumed”
Living flesh is not specifically living humanoid bodies dear
And i already proved you their diet can be variety, and some of then don’t even need to eat
why not? elaborate
how a group of individuals, who live in secret or hidden, in a minor scale, can compare to an entire race? who will be in evidence?
one individual here and there, proving my point.
you need to separete lore and gameplay
do you know orgrimmar is way bigger than ingame right? and you know the warlocks will not use their demonic magic in front of everyone right?
The only reason thrall let then use was because nobody else knew.
like? anyone who doest this stuff is kicked out, Garrosh, sylvanas soon, thee is no room for then.
we sure need more amright
no, i said they are untrustworthy because they are evil bloodsuckers.
there is, cause no many elves died in nortrend, but don’t worry there will be more in sylvans raid to kill
false to the core.
its because a class work different than a race, and i don’t know how you can’t grasp this simple thing,
other undeads are, some of then can be good but other are just evil and thats it, same as demons, some of then you can work with, the other are just evil.
because there are more tauren
yet to see a good sanl’'yn, aka, a good undead with the curse of vampirism who will feed on other lives, sounds about rly stupid.
your entire point again, is a giant “if” and “maybe” and hope they somehow create good ones, when they are all evil, aka retcon their lore.
and they can kill more blood elves to do that, what a beautiful family isn’t.
other kind of undead, and all interactions show then evil.
you didn’t, evidence was already proved wrong, forsaken don’t need to eat living humanoid corpses, they can eat other things, DKs are just some individuals, not an entire race, their problem can be controlled, San’layn will need fresh blood or they will be using horde members for it, and again, an entire race is more problem than just a few individuals of a class.
shamans deal with spirits as well.
thats why i said in a degree.
the forsakens and the horde, good to remember that sylvanas blackmailed lorthemar to send soldiers to nortrend.
Right now what lorthemar chose? the living or the undead?
it is
![:rofl:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/rofl.png?v=6" ":rofl:")
and they can play blood elf dk, its a vampire already.
pretty sure they glowing is an elf thing.
again, there is no need to improve.
you are the one making random claims saying there could be good sanlayn because “yes i think so”
forsaken is just undead, snalayn are undead with the curse of vampirism.
they did, all of then: evil, their interactions: evil raid bosses.
all of then being evil and being evil npcs to kill in quests and raids is prove enough.
now its your time to prove they aren’t, bring up some good ones.
your jokes are worse than your arguments, she need lackeys to do what she want, evil shenanigans without question, what the best option? bring up more undead elves now even worse.
there is no such need.
actually is very easy because all of then showed to be evil.
then go on, bring some evidence of udneads eating horde members, and dks doing suffering to horde members, since its that easy we will have a few examples at least.
providing wrong facts, and forcing similiraties is a big fail to me.
already showed false, since they cane at other things and don’t have the urge to eat just living humanoid corspes…
this is your canon source? battlegrounds? the ones we died and live again, LUL
learn to differentiate gameplay and lore.
few individuals operating in a minor scale away from the mob.
very simple.
orcs are the most populous race withing the horde, various clans and they reproduce quickly, their children mature ate age of 12, troll females can mate like 70 times in a night,taurens had many tribes, against a people who pass trough a genocide, and elves don’t reproduce quickly, and undeads who lose a chunk of their forces in undercity.
we can safely said the “kalindor horde” is marjory.
im pretty sure they are not so egocentric to think they are Illidan.
and sicne no demon did the blood oath, no demons are part of the horde.
battlegrounds are not canon, LUL
but they dind’t, in all those eyars, and one sanl’ayn already did
if you don’t think they are evil, they you must belive there are good ones out there,
all the undead have mental issues, you are the one taking personal.
yes, cause you know, there is a degree of acceptable and not acceptable.
no, its a canon thing, they are few, they come from blood elves hat died in nortreht, it is a few.
being to few they do not have a relevant army who could be useful, at least the void elves can form a elite force, since more elves would want to be a void elf, yet i will find hard a blood elf wanting to die and become a monster.
already covered by blood elves himself, there is no reason for then to join the horde, and there is no reason for the horde want then, simple as that.
like the human want the forsaken members? lmao
this look like you here, big “ifs” and “maybes”
Against an less likely allied race.
its because they don’t make sense to want join, they don’t make sense to join, there is no sense for the horde let then join, there is no reason the horde want then, they don’t fit the horde thematic, and we already have too many elves for now yes.
Like i said, im not even 100% against, im against then now, they could wait, so lore can be Build first, and other races, who make more sense and are waited for way too long, could join first.
cause we just get one new elf already, but no, the elf fanbase will always want and demand more
Seeing Syedgrfyed and Laeth debate like this is making me hungry. Where is Grumbles and his cookies?
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The formatting makes my eyes bleed O.O
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Death Knights don’t drink blood to my knowledge. And even if they did, Death Knights and vampires are two very different things.
So the opposite of your argument above.
This is sad.
Yes, but they’re completely different than San’layn. Liches undergo a ritual to become what they are, they aren’t turned like other undead.
The Dreven “fiasco” that literally just happened in the current game. Do you have advance news of the next expansion?
There’s 2 Blood Princes in the Arugal storyline we have yet to meet.
The only half a handful of them that we’ve seen, 4 of which were under Arthas’ control. Again, there’s been more evil Tauren than San’layn.
This is all under the assumption that all San’layn are exactly like Dreven, when Lana’thel disproves that.
Care to explain?
You have showed nothing, contrary to what I provided.
… did you completely ignore the the first and second parts where they crave flesh and also have to indulge in order to not breakdown and go mindless?
It is ouright stated.
It specifically calls out Humanoid and Undead. Animals don’t cut it.
Yes they can snack and drink alcohol, that has nothing to do with their for flesh lest they break down.
Because we don’t know the population numbers of San’layn and Death Knights and so on.
It outright disproves your point.
So do you.
Of course it is bigger, it doesn’t remove all the other people using the Cleft of Shadow though.
Receipts please.
The first that comes to mind is a questline in Northrend where you help an orc kill her sister because she’s incompetent.
You don’t care for elves, been noted.
So they are untrustworthy because they are undead, with a curse similar to the Forsaken and Death Knights.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, but assuming that was a “not” it’s superflous. We don’t have exact numbers for the elves that went to Northrend nor how many San’layn were made under Arthas’ control, which also sidesteps that San’layn can make more San’layn.
I have actually provided the evidence to dispute this.
The parts that work differently are irrelevant to why the are being brought up, same as asking what toppings you like on your pizza when you’re ordering from McDonalds.
Please provide facts and listings of which all Undead and Demons can and can’t be anything but evil.
We’ve seen more Tauren, on the whole there probably are more Tauren, but then we’ve only seen less than a handful of San’layn.
Correct. “Yet”.
Also we have good Forsaken and Death Knights.
You’re entire point is making things up and pointing at Lore that doesn’t exist, because nowhere is it stated that all San’layn are evil.
As Arthas showed they can be turned after their dead, they don’t have to turn a living a blood elf into one. Or they can willingly be turned.
Correct we have all sorts of undead with different mindsets, and the very very few interactions have not been good, but Dreven shows they are fine working together.
It was not.
They can eat birthday cake and hot dogs if they wish, it does not slow their breakdown like flesh does.
How is the Death Knights issue more controllable than the San’layn one?
And now you’re saying there’s more San’layn than Death Knights?
And so do Druids. Spirits are not a Shaman exclusive thing.
Not really from what was wrote.
Sylvanas yes, not the entirety of the Forsaken.
He chooses Horde, of which the Forsaken are a part.
Nope.
shrugs vampires are predominant throughout the history of media and fiction and folklore, i can see them not being to everyone’s taste but i do like them.
You refuted this yourself, if a blood elf using the void isn’t a Void Elf then a Blood Elf using blood magic isn’t a San’layn.
Yeah i have no idea what you’re going on about with this.
Let me try for a third time, using slurs hurt whatever stance and credibility you had.
I’m pointing at example thus far. We have non evil Tauren and Forsaken, and Demons and Death Knights. We’ve only interacted with 6 San’layn.
Forsaken are undead cursed with the craving for flesh, as I pointed out.
Presenting an evil one is different than stating they are all evil. Otherwise all orcs are evil because of Siege of Orginmmar and Night Elves are evil because of Wailing Caverns.
It is not, since that is not all of them.
We haven’t seen them yet, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and i eagerly await to meet friendly ones that aren’t limited to the opposite faction’s storyline.
Other living members of the Horde are more than willing to do what she asks.
There is, as i showed.
The half-handful shown thus far, we haven’t seen every San’layn. Again weve seen more evil examples from other races than the San’layn.
You’re basically asking me to show when NPCs go to use the bathroom, same equivalence.
Ive provided the facts pointing out how they are the same, you wish to ignore those.
It was not. They can eat anything, but only Humanoid and undead flesh prevent their breakdown. And they do explicitly crave living humanoid flesh.
And yet you don’t.
Provide facts that their number are “few” and unnoticed.
No you can’t. Again provide actual population numbers, Trolls be having awesome mojo isn’t an actual answer.
It’s kinda they’re thing, emulating him as much as they can.
Have any of the Allied Races done so? No. They pledged their allegiance to the Horde and were permitted in.
Neither is the PC being the sole character present at events.
Receipts please that it hasn’t happened.
I believe there are good and evil ones out there, as Forsaken And Death Knights already show.
Youre insistence on “screwed in the head” when specifically targeting San’layn while ignoring the issues other Undead and their allies have to deal with is just a failing attempt to demonize them over the undead.
Death Knights: suffering
Forsaken: flesh
San’layn: blood
And the San’layn are the wost?
They are xx because we don’t have actual numbers, you surely don’t no matter how much you insist otherwise.
Again provide receipts for the actual numbers.
And where do you possibly grasp that any elf would want to be a Void Elf?
The Blood Elves do not posses any Darkfallen Orbs nor San’layn magics.
Again, “they don’t want them because i say so” is meaningless.
The Scourge was still very active when the Forsaken formed, and even them some actually do. Now the Scourge is contained its perfectly within reason for Blood Elves to want to reunite with those that went to avenge to their king and city.
I have used facts and allowances for when nothing is outright stated nor confirmed, whereas you are making plenty of assumptions and trying to push them as fact.
Again, an assumption you are having.
They don’t make sense to you, does not mean they don’t make sense.
Allies.
The Horde thematic is usually “bad guy” races as outcasts working together, they fit the the thematic perfectly.
Please point out the official Horde elf quota they have to stay under.
So you have done a 180 and are in favor of San’layn if we see more of them, just like everyone who does want San’layn wants.
As for other races that have “waiting too long” San’layn were introduced in Wrath of the Lich King, they’ve been here awhile.
I want more races period, and San’layn are neat and have been around for awhile.
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San’layn were made to be evil NPCs that we kill. They don’t need to be an Allied Race.
Says the Death Knight.
Also, what are Dark Iron Dwarves?
An Allied Race.
They were a plot device for alliance. They never appeared at all in horde story and if they were going to be an allied race I would have expected them to at least put in an appearance.
I don’t think they’ll add more elven ARs, but on one hand, people would definitely play them, more than ARs for the other races. On the other hand, WoW would start looking like World of Elfcraft.
Dark Iron were written to be allies for fan service… blizz admitted that.
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Of course, the other two Alliance Allied Races were garbage.
I think they are good. Lightforged needed shaman and monk. Kultiran came out good. I thought I would hate them but after unlocking them they are pretty good.
We needs reasons other than the fact that the Alliance killed them all during their war campaign?
I mean we killed plenty of night elves… they are pretty much extinct?
Receipts please.
And for the longest time what where they before that?
Evil NPCs that were meant to be killed until they joined the Alliance during Cataclysm(yes, I know not all the DiD joined the Alliance).
Right now Horde are potentially lined up with two other AR Elves in the form of San’layn and Forsaken Night Elves.
Alliance only have High Elves which are currently under the “not gonna happen” status.
Given the polarity that Elves can cause in player population, I don’t see the Horde getting more elf races than the Alliance.