Nah. You cant control if the tank gets parried/dodged multiple times early on. It’s on the DPS to not get parse happy and jump the gun till aggro is established.
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Agreed. Pulling aggro is 100 percent the fault of dps. Watch the shiny threatclassic2 bar and don’t pass the top person.
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I legitimately want to see a raid of 40 kades. Where no one enchants or consumes or pays attention. Let’s see how “farm” the content is now. You get carried and cry about being IMMEDIATELY identified as a weak link. It’s hilarious that your guild didn’t even need to see two raids before tagging you as dead weight.
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I doubt (m)any wipes are going to be caused by a DPS getting smacked in the first couple GCDs of a fight.
Even if the tank loses aggro in the first few seconds due to bad RNG (which I’ll admit can happen), the only bosses capable of wiping the raid due to aggro issues are dragons with breaths, and those breaths don’t occur for several seconds.
In most cases, a Taunt would suffice. In cases where the boss is immune to Taunt, a LIP would solve the problem.
A tank’s job is to generate enough threat to hold aggro without dying in the process.
Failing to hold aggro (or requiring the DPS to hold back) is the tank’s fault.
Vael is the one that it happens way more than it should.
On others, usually just that one dps dies, and everyone laughs at them. But on Vael, it’s extremely easy for one dps to cost the entire raid tons of gold and time in consumes in the blink of an eye.
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The vast majority of wipes in current content are caused by execution errors which logs don’t really help with, not throughput issues which logs can help with.
For example DPS not watching threat because they’re trying to get a high dps number is an execution error by the DPS.
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It sounds like you’re trying to raid with a team that’s striving for more performance than your willing to put in.
I raided with a heroic raid team in Legion. It’s not easy, it’s a second job. You must push the limits of your character, get the most out of every action. You must follow the direction of the lead, or get benched. It’s that simple.
If you’re looking for a more casual experience from raids, that’s OK. It’s my approach in Classic. It’s also more fun for me. I doubt I’ll ever raid on a serious team again.
But you can’t judge them for their approach. If they want to get the most out of everyone on the team, they have every right. There are reasons to push hard other than “no wipes”.
If you didn’t cut it, either by choice or you simply don’t have the ability, tip your hat say thanks and move on. There’s a place for you somewhere.
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Requiring dps to hold back is the tanks fault lol? I am probably the worst geared fury warrior in our guild and I do 1600 dps on vael with blue weapons, using cleave instead of HS. I still have to LIP or back off in the last 6 seconds of vael. Our tank does great threat, but has to wear more mitigation to help give newer healers a buffer. Not his fault at all, literally no ones fault that warriors have to throttle a little. It is completely on us to watch the meter and not pull. It’s as avoidable as idiotic proximity pulling.
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You shouldn’t be wiping in the first few GCDs on Vael, even if a DPS pulls aggro. The first breath doesn’t go out for several seconds, and that’s more than enough time to move into the tank position, use a LIP, or for the tank to regain aggro.
Hell, it’s an infinite rage fight. It’s not like the tank should have any issues generating aggro when he can mash Heroic Strike crits every second AND Bloodthirst on cooldown.
I will say there’s plenty a DPS can be doing if they pull aggro that can prevent a wipe, but getting aggro in the first place is not their fault. DPS should never have to hold back.
Logs absolutely help with execution errors.
Do you not know just how in depth the logs actually are? You can watch what people are casting, when they cast it, if they canceled it, where they’re standing at any point in the fight, etc.
I disagree with the premise, but logs CAN help with that, actually.
You can see WHEN the DPS did damage and how much threat the tank had generated in that time. You can see the number of debuffs (see: Sunders) applied, etc.
Logs are actually a perfect tool for analyzing “execution.” You just have to know how to look through them. Logs are more than “you did X DPS, now we rank you.”
Yes.
I’m sorry to hear your tank sucks. Our Warriors haven’t used Cleave since week one, when we realized that was unnecessary.
I’m sorry your healers suck, then?
1 Like
That’s some horrible experiences you’ve had. I don’t think it’s logs or specs. Although I do think you should be playing holy as Paladin. It seems you’ve been in some pretty elitist guilds I mean lol it’s MC why do people care about parses and how many people you healed if it gets cleared in a timely matter? Find a better guild.
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When those things lead to through put errors(oh and are also things that aren’t obvious just from what you see in the UI). Are there some things logs can help with sure, firemaw stacks for example. Most of the time it’s obvious in game what happened in terms of execution issues.
In most cases the execution errors are readily apparent without having to look at a log. Just looking at a threat meter will tell you who pulled threat without needing to go to a log for example.
This game is for you, those people aren’t.
My guild runs ONY, MC, BWL and ZG clears every week. We raid for 3 hours on Friday and Saturday nights, that’s it.
If content is going down nobody should care.
This content doesn’t require people to min/max like that. If it does, it says a lot about the type of players you have in those guilds. Our first Razergore kill was with 31 people of mish/mash specs.
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Do you really believe this?
Maybe he is so spoiled with Salvation he actually thinks this lol 
3 Likes
Sorry you got stuck with those ppl.
Find a guild that’s just to have fun.
I’m a tank, so absolutely.
Losing aggro is a failure on my part, not the DPS’.
Ah, yes. Spoiled by the blessing that every raid group will have.
???
Horde ? Hello ?
1 Like
So, you can grab aggro even when your dps go full Leeroy Jenkins with their cooldowns before you’ve even started your pull?
Different tools for different factions.
Top TPS parses in the world are Horde because of Windfury. They have fewer (viable) aggro reduction options, but generally higher threat generation as a result.
Yes.
lol
1 Like