People might look at my gear and think guilds hooked me up…nope…after months of raiding I was thrown the scraps no one else wanted. I wasn’t ever allowed to roll against Warriors or Rogues for my gear.
I raided as a Retribution Paladin in a guild who shall not be named (but they will read this post) on Benediction. Even though I raided as a “meme spec” I did my best. Since the game is 15 years old (we cleared MC, BWL, and Onyxia in 1 night without any wipes)…and I showed up to every raid with pots/buffs…I didn’t think anything of it. Of course I’m not going to be #1 on the damage meter…I’m a Retribution Paladin just here to have fun with everyone else…just like in those glorious vanilla days…right??? WRONG
The guild who shall not be named did not allow me to roll on melee dps items even though I raided as retribution. They forced me to use a Nightfall Axe (chance on hit to increase caster dps by 15%) causing my dps to fall even more. Then I started receiving whispers telling me that I needed to improve my dps for raid logs/parses even though I was not allowed to roll on melee dps gear. I was told that the melee dps gear I needed was always going to go to fury warriors and rogues and that I needed to find another way to increase my damage…WHILE PERMANENTLY USING NIGHTFALL! So I did what anyone with a brain would do…I /gquit. The Guild Master then continued to whisper me about how bad my damage was…despite me telling him that I cannot improve my damage if he doesn’t allow me to roll on melee dps gear. He also said that since I quit the guild I now owe him 1,000g for Nightfall even though we never agreed to that and he didn’t even allow me to roll on melee dps gear for my spec. To this day the guild master finds information on my raid logs/parses to whisper me and tell me how garbage Retribution Paladins are and how much I suck.
So then I joined a new guild. The guild told me I had to respec Holy…so I did. We raided MC. No deaths…no wipes…just a fast MC clear. I then get a whisper the next day “Kade you won’t be able to raid BWL with us because on the last boss fight you only did 25 flash of light heals and our main paladin did 36 flash of light heals. Before you raid with us we need to you increase your healing by at least 15-20%.” I replied “I’m the most geared healer you have. We cleared MC without a single wipe and no one died…don’t you think that maybe some of us weren’t healing a whole lot because no one needed to be healed? I mean that was my first raid…” The GM replied “I’m sorry but until you improve your healing by 15-20% in the Molten Core you will be unable to attend the BWL raids.” I replied “But I’m Tier 2 and have 5/8 of the set…I’ve cleared it for months.” GM replied “According to our raid logs/parses you do not meet the minimum requirement for BWL.” I once again…/gquit
My Vanilla WoW experience was nothing like WoW Classic. Maybe people didn’t know any better…but when we showed up and cleared content without any wipes no one cared. Today in WoW Classic everything you do is monitored. I received that whisper about my flash of light heals as soon as I logged in at like 2am…yes in the middle of the night…so that they could discuss raid logs/parses with me. What is this madness? Why can’t people just play the game as Moonkins, Shadow Priests, Enhancement Shamans, Retribution Paladins or whatever and be happy? Who cares if someone gets a few more flash of light heals than me…does that mean I’m not good enough to raid for the rest of my life due to a molten core run where no one died?
I guess I’m finally reaching the point where I’m wondering “Is this game for me?” I heard in other games they don’t record every single thing you do so these situations don’t happen and maybe those games are the ones I need to start looking at playing…because receiving whispers at 2 in the morning about how many flash of light heals I did on a boss is down right creepy!
152 Likes
Bro, I’m sorry to hear you dealt with this nonsense. This game is infested with elitst $#*^heads, and frankly, I’ve pulled back far from it all. I have tons of stories too about them of similar tale. Nothing you do will ever impress people in WoW.
They don’t care. They’re all min/max, and put this entire game under a microscope. Frankly, WoW’s community uterly sucks, and it wasn’t this bad in the past. I too was around in 2005 when it was new. People helped a lot more, people made friendships, and worked together. Now adays it’s like living with a boss that micromanages you to death. My problem was never with the game. I love WoW. My problem is the community, and how people treat each other. People are rude, clicky, ignorant, angry, controlling, unsympathetic, and selfish. Yeah, that’s right. The community SUCKS. It needs a reboot. People need to learn to be nicer to others, and to use positive reinforcement instead of this douchery we see rampant in the game.
Don’t tolerate that elitism. Like EVER.
Hope you can smile. 
88 Likes
Couple things.
Sorry you had to deal with all that. Sucks really. As long as we are clearing content in a reasonable amount of time who gives a damn what people play… to a point.
Theres two sides to every story though…
Classic is no where near what vanilla was. Absolutely cant compare the two.
Min/Max Is the new in bro. People are always ganna wanna inspect people.
But honestly sounds like a bunch of douchers.
Alsoooo prob cuz you are Alliance 
9 Likes
just gquit and apply to guilds you read their forum adverts and match your needs.
I left i speedrunning guild I wasnt happy in for a slower guild that doesnt require world buffs and I’m clearing all content every week just fine.
34 Likes
I’m not sure if you’re just vent posting or if you have an agenda but I’ll just say a few things and cover my bases:
- I feel like you’ve cut out a lot of important details to paint this a certain way
- If we take the post at face value, you had a mismatch of expectations with your guilds, you should have been able to identify very early on that these were not the guilds for you.
- Logs are just a tool that can be used or misused, logs didn’t ruin your experience, an unfitting guild did.
32 Likes
Yea Im gonna agree with Mayatau here.
DPS and Healing meters existed in vanilla as well, Parsing is far better because at least it basis it off of your gear level as well as over all for your class.
My advice, find a more Medium level raiding guild, there are plenty of them just gotta not get too stoked by wanting to be in Uber hard core guilds.
4 Likes
If there’s a mismatch between what you want and what the guilds want then you won’t have a good time. All I care about is having fun with friends online, the operative word being friends. Our guild raids with enh shaman and I wouldn’t want to raid without them yknow why? Because they are fun people and they absolutely rolled on and won dps weapons.
We’re behind the curve in a 15 year old game but so what? Ours is a community guild with many ex-GMs and Glads and we’re playing a videogame to have fun with friends.
We go over parses with a fine tooth comb to fix problems and figure out why a wipe happened or someone is being parried a lot but other than that I don’t care about them.
16 Likes
Actually I disagree. In some MMORPG’s they don’t allow people to monitor logs/parses because they know how much it destroys the experience. The same reason some FPS games don’t allow you to monitor the kills. It creates a toxic environment. As someone said earlier…when you are being micro-managed and everything you do is being monitored…it is not an enjoyable experience for “most” people. Maybe some people enjoy being under a microscope and getting whispers in the middle of the night about how many flash of light heals they did on the last boss…but I find it super creepy and a huge turn off when it comes to continuing to play the game. In some MMORPG’s you just work together to clear content without the raid logs/parses police stalking every move you make. I think it is INSANE that content can be cleared super fast and people are told they have to sit out BWL because Molten Core wasn’t cleared a few seconds faster or because someone did a few more flash of lights than someone else. That is ridiculous.
32 Likes
the logs don’t do that - the guild officers do. I can vouch for the fact that we raid with parses but we pull them up only to fix problems - we had some confusion about MT getting a 3k/s DoT at the beginning of priest calls on Nef so we pored through the logs to figure out what was happening - but I care more about having fun with a community of friends, than the logs.
3 Likes
You didn’t even enchant your gear or use consumables. You ruined your own experience by not putting any effort into your character.
15 Likes
Yeah, I’ve played games like that, and I’ve run DPS meters in them at risk of getting banned. Simply put: Logs of some form are an important tool for improving your play. If you don’t care about improving yourself, then join a guild that doesn’t care either.
Toxic players create a toxic environment. I get some people don’t want a record of things they do for privacy reason or what have you, and for those people there are guilds that don’t log.
If I’m looking over logs and I see something that concerns me about a players performance I’m very likely to bring it up. I’m not doing that to be controlling or something, I just want to help the person do better. ( It’s like the whole point of logging, to figure out how you can be better.)
If I feel someone isn’t performing up to par, I’m probably not going to feel comfortable bringing them into a more difficult raid. Sure, I’d probably want to bring that person and we very well could carry them or pick up their slack, but part of the reason the raids are ‘easy’ is everyone doing their part and meeting expectations. It’s not just YOU the raid leader is thinking about, it’s the 38 other raiders too.
3 Likes
This is the great thing about logs, we can see that you actually had 80 deaths in that MC run.
21 Likes
So you violated some MMORPG’s policies…and risked getting banned from those MMORPG’s…just so you can monitor people’s damage? That tells me everything I need to know about you. You are no different than the people in the hyper-competitive guilds I was in. Micro-managing everything people do is just part of the game for them. But I see it as “creepy”…just let people have fun and enjoy the experience however they want to play. Let people have fun in a video game…instead of monitoring them like it’s a review for a paid job in real life.
7 Likes
I had no clue it was that bad. If you’re a holy pally, you shouldn’t have any issues finding another raiding guild. It sounds like both of your guilds were pretty trash if they require the ret paladin to pick up their dps or monitor your heals to the exact number, so you dodged a bullet by gquitting.
Don’t quit because of neckbeards that dedicate every waking, breathing moment to this game at 30 years old. Vanilla was not mean’t to be played like this.
14 Likes
Logging everything a player does and sending them whispers about it creates a “toxic” environment. This is why MMORPG and FPS games have removed that kind of data collection from their games and ban people who do collect that data…because it creates a “TOXIC” environment. Do you think I find it enjoyable to get midnight whispers about how many flash of light heals i did on a boss in molten core? No, it just pisses me off and makes me want to stop playing the game.
5 Likes
just stop br0, we can see from your logs you are a person that shows up not knowing how to play your class, no consumes, no enchants etc.
just join a casual guild, wipe for hours and have fun as you are seeking.
14 Likes
“Forcing” you to re-roll holy is a pretty sensible opinion; lots of people don’t want to carry the meme specs, and that’s ok.
Looking at one set of logs and determining that your raw number of flash of lights in an easy raid that probably didn’t require much healing should determine whether you go to BWL (which you said you already cleared multiple times) is ridiculous.
This is known as being a mid-wit. Someone who is kinda sorta not an idiot, but they’re not actually intelligent; they don’t have the analytical capability to figure out what they should be doing, so they simply pick one metric or one guideline and stick to it.
1 Like
Which is actually pretty meaningless in Vanilla/Classic tbh. It’s not like retail where the gear is basically spreadsheeted by ilvl.
Not even necessary as a healer. In this case, from looking at his logs, this just appears to be a player who doesn’t know how to play his class/role that well and needs someone to work with him on improving. If I were to hazard a guess, he probably doesn’t have a healing UI mod installed so it takes him too long to find another target and start casting relative to the other healers in his raid. His activity % is quite low, even on fights where there should be enough damage going around to keep him busy. And it’s not because he cleansing.
4 Likes