I understand why they are a thing. Nothing can stop this sort of behavior as most newer players and younger generation have alot of belief in maximizing and being overly competitive. This is the same arguments I see about raiderio. I might not like it but I know why its there and why people use it. I too use these systems as its part of the game now. I wish there were more people who would just enjoy the game and play for fun but sadly old days of mmorpgs where it was more community based are gone. Today we need systems to force interation or parts of the game to incentivise to do X or Y by giving the player a reward. Instead of doing stuff because its fun.I believe more single players games have that than multiplayer games.
I think it’s down to the type of guild you are joining.
For us, we were a ‘hardcore 1337’ Naxx guild 15 years ago. Now, we’re all back and guess what - we’re all old, have careers, kids, etc etc. We just want to have fun with old and new friends alike that are in the same age range (average age of our guild is around 38).
And guess what? We have ret pally’s and boomkins. We clear BWL, MC and Ony in around 2h45m. Not break-neck speeds, sure, but damn good for a bunch of old casuals lol
AND we have a blast doing it. Just find a group that aligns with your playstyle.
It’s amusing to me to read that the OP thought logs were ruining his experience because the GM of the second guild the OP is talking about is a former member of the guild I was in before I left Benediction.
A lot of us left that guild because we wanted something more hardcore, and a lot of folks stayed behind on Benediction because they didn’t. Even a group of very, VERY seriously anti-min/max folks (some thought enchanting their gear was too hardcore) was telling this guy his healing was too low.
Parsing isn’t meaningless if you’re applying the numbers correctly though. No, you shouldn’t be expecting your entire raid to parse 90s. However, if you have two mages with about the same gear level and same spec in the same raid, one is parsing in the 90s and the other in the 40s, you should seriously be questioning what that 2nd mage is doing.
The problem is that almost no one is applying the numbers correctly. They’re just looking at summary numbers without ever bothering to get into the weeds of how those numbers are generated.
Indeed, this is a common problem in industry - and government - where you’d think people should know better. When you get to the level of people running a guild in WoW who spent most of their high school math class thinking “when will I ever need this?” and imagining they know how to read a log parse…
A good rule of thumb is if someone is saying your numbers are bad but can’t explain why they are bad and how to improve them, then they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Pretty much. People just look at “higher good, lower bad” and that’s not taking into account anything else. For example a class that can dispel is likely to focus on dispels on a fight that needs them (Chromaggus for example) rather than tunnel vision DPS/HPS. So if you just look at raw numbers it might be why is your healing so low ignoring the fact that this person was mostly dispelling everybody.
Logs are not an issue. I feel you are lying about details and/or leaving out a lot and trying to make yourself come off as the victim. If what you stated is all true, then I’m sorry and that sucks.
But just going to lay this out there. The vast majority of the guilds really do not care about parses and mainly just use them for self improvement or to analysis fights (Not so much the case with Classic since there is no unknown). The guilds that do care are those actually competing for speedruns, which you 100% were not in any of those guilds or at least those groups as a Ret Paladin.
You need to find a better suited guild for youself if you just want to play Ret and have fun, assuming you’re not lying about the whole situation.
Parsing is not stupid, if that’s what your group is in to.
It is also not essential, though can be helpful if you are hitting a brick wall and can not see exactly why.
But parsing has no effect on anyone unless they chose to have it affect them.
One does not have to join a hard core parsing guild, they can easily go join a plain old social friendly play together guild.
Problem is when one wants the rewards from the hard core parsing guild, but does not want to actually play that way.
But that is a fault of the person joining the wrong guild type, not the guild itself.
And said person should look in mirror before pointing finger
That’s not the vibe I took from the OP’s post, it seems you misunderstood them. They seemed more interested in a casual raiding experience, but found it difficult to escape the min/max culture, because it’s everywhere; in raiding, but also in dungeons and pvp.
I’ve experienced this so many times since classic released as well. There’s nothing like a weirdo social idiot joining a 5-man that was getting along, and proceeding to brow-beat everyone with their min/max garbage nonsense. It’s not easy to get away from in this game, stop pushing that narrative.
Again, Gyth, parsing IS stupid. It’s bad for the overall vibe of an mmo. This remains my opinion. I know it’s not your opinion, I am at peace with that.
I see people saying that parsing is just a tool. To that I say: it’s a tool that has been used way out of proportion, to the point where someone’s personality, reliability and even–to some degree–their skill level are ranked way lower than their parsing scores. It’s silly. We would be better off without the meters and the tools I think, but it is what it is.
I still feel bad for the OP, and for other players who just wanted to play the game and socialize. It’s cool though, there are other places to do that and WoW is old.
Well, he appears to have gone and joined guilds that are not the kind of guilds he should be seeking, and he also seems to maybe not have told the complete truth about the whole thing.
It isnt good nor bad, it all depends on the context.
One does not have to play in that type of a guild, i dont.
Other people parsing has no effect on me.
I do play the game and socialize, when i can.
I do not have the free in game time to even run half the things with any consistency. Cant play wow while working, just play with forums.
It does not hamper me being able to find people to play with and guild with that are totally fine with that.
I found a guild that doesn’t care about the elitist crap and it’s great! Remember, this is a game and if you are not having fun, you need to re-evaluate your situation and figure out what’s fun to you.
It sounds like you’ve been playing with the wrong guilds for what you’re expecting as enjoyment. I’ve never bothered with the elitist culture in any video game… that crap is too much like work.
I would not say always
Ive seen DPS blast the mob before the tank actually even got to hit it, or do anything else of worth to ti.
Also seen healers get twitchy and pre-blast the tank with a heal, before the tank had got to do anything threat/aggro related, and then the healer gets a not quite surprise visit.
I have even been guilty of doing that before on accident.
This was a very fun read. Did OP ever answer to the question if he is handicapped? He used that as scapegoat several times and I’ve not seen him reply.
Still you gotta give the tank a few gcds and time cds accordingly. Trust me im a top feral tank on grobb 97 avg. But if a warr pops reck dw instantly im gonna have a hard time holding threat if i get any parries dodges etc. Yes once i get going and theres no threat drops iv had 60k leads at some points.
Nah. Aside from the half second necessary for the tank to be the first one to attack, DPS shouldn’t have to hold back. Pop all cooldowns immediately and DPS like a real man.
In Vanilla, you’d have been lucky to even be in the raid at all, let alone even tossed the “scraps” for playing Retribution and actually trying to DPS.
Exactly. Retribution was never looked at kindly in the past.
Join a guild that doesn’t care about parsing, progression, or optimization.