The OP click-baited you, and their share of the blame for arguing is already understood. They have just as much fault. But you essentially got trolled.
Bro I play BDK and Prot pally in raid I’m 6/8M working on Silken Court right now I can tell you with confidence the BDK is much easier to play.
Boneshield is always up, as long as you are pressing buttons you just have boneshield.
Shield of the Righteous is not always up, and the 30% block you get from casting WoG is not always up.
As a prot pally you are juggling a lot more cooldowns and small duration dmg mitigation.
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Bears definitely do.
- No rage and you have extremely low armor. At 625 ilvl I have 40.39% reduction from armor.
- Very low dodge as crit isn’t a high stat priority.
- Depending on pull size it can take several GCD’s to spread Moonfire for the healing. And of course the first Moonfire is bugged to only hit one target making it take even longer.
- Thrash has a decently long CD at 4.6 seconds meaning to get to 3 stacks for a 6% DR and its damage as healing takes 13 seconds.
Its a big reason why newer bears in high keys so often go splat on pull. You absolutely require a big CD like SI or a Rets Blessing to survive the initial damage. Which is similar to using something like GotK on pull as a pally to survive the initial damage.
Prot pala is meta because it has the most ability to chain together CDs for long periods of functional immortality, coupled with light weaver damage.
The way high key pulls work is you play around everyone’s CDs. You pull big, bigger than most tanks can survive, and then your prot pala cycles through all his buttons + healer externals for about 40 seconds, by which point the pack is dead. Then you do a boss or a few smaller pulls to let everything recover and do it again.
The feast or famine nature of paladin survivability just doesn’t really come into question in mythic+. In the words of my 3300 Pala tank friend if you die on paladin either you’re bad or it’s the DPS fault the pack didn’t die in time. I’m sure Kira would agree too.
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- Class design and toolkit difference i guess.
- Even if we are talking about DH?
My brother in christ, you have Shield Block, the strongest and fastest defensive CD in the game
What is this irrelevant argument?
We’re discussing M+
Was discussing just a few weeks ago lol
This has been unchanged from the start of TWW. The damage has been skyrocketed though since the .05 patch. That’s why it shifted.
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If I had a nickel for every time the meta looked like warrior in the first season of an expansion but then in the 0.05 patch paladin got massive buffs and dominated the rest of the season id have two nickels. It’s not much but it’s weird that it happened twice.
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Bears are one of the best.
You incarn at the start and roll into the next pack with resources when incarn is down.
E.G:
(In a +12 btw, 626 and he forgot to use MoTW).
Blood can pull off similar shenanigans of soloing albeit with a lot more yo-yoing.
Protection Paladins cannot self sustain even closely and start off pulls much weaker.
Prot can’t self sustain but their peak mitigation is higher, more frequent, and lasts longer, which is all that really matters for big pulls.
You just care about how long they can survive with 3-4 packs of fortified mobs wailing on them in a 15. It’s the DPS job then to kill it before the paladin runs out of buttons.
That’s also not the first pull of NW. It’s barely a third of it.
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But the conversation was going into a pack not the peak. Once Prot is rolling it’s fine.
Not really, the patch had some decent amount of base level adjustments but we are still squishier than most other tanks. It’s also important to point out that we have one of, if not, the smallest Health Pool.
Our damage wasn’t garbage before. It was in the middle before .0.5. I was easily pulling ~800-850k before.
I guess you are trolling yourself if you continue to engage with me for completely off-topic things. You are trying to sound like you are on some moral high ground when you are literally doing what you are calling me out for. You tried to make the argument that it was ridiculous that we were doing math and talking about numbers when that is literally what the thread is about.
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Squishier on average, but higher highs for longer and lower lows. But with how M+ plays at the high end only the highs really end up mattering.
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Oh for sure because they are highly coordinated to use group utilities, aoe stops, external defensives at the opportune times when the Paladin needs to “recharge”. This isn’t happening for 99.9%.
In pugs you just see everyone dumping aoe stops all at once in the beginning.
The same abilities from bosses and trash come out, regardless of how long a fight goes. If something ins on CD, you should already know how to deal with anything incoming, preparation.
I DO know what I’m talking about. I ran M+ on other toons when it first came out. I started to do it on this toon as tank and did not care for it, hence, the lack of any M+ on my profile.
See above.
Not my fault you don’t understand. It’s scripted, plain and simple. Anyone can run M+ as long as they have the gear and know the encounters. It’s just like every other PvE, only more health to deal with, harder hits, and affixes mean preparation is the difference between success and failure.
Poor kid. Try a dictionary some time.
Again, see above. M+ isn’t special in the realm of PvE.
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I’d usually discuss your replies, but seeing as you just want to be condescending, I don’t see the point. You’re no more capable of understanding than your buddy, of whom I was responding to in the quotes you used, and it shows too well. Before the two of you decide to try and troll someone out of a thread, maybe be a little more prepared.
Using the Same boss fight as an example.
Group A kills it in 3 minutes and 3 tank busters came out.
Group B kills it in 5 minutes and 5 tank busters come out.
Group A tank doesn’t need to use as many CDs and has them ready for next pack
Group B tank needed to use extra defensives and doesn’t have them ready for next pack
Both tanks originally planned on having cds for the pack after boss but group B tank now doesn’t (due to fight duration)
Am I missing something or are you saying fight duration has no impact on how cds line up?
From a dps perspective it can have huge impacts. If a boss lives longer and I have to use an extra cd, now I don’t have that cd for next pack, now that pack is gonna live longer, now the tank needs more defensives and healer has to heal more because it’s not dying as fast as it would’ve if I had the cd ready
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Poor Warriors, not having their place since BFA 
But one thing about Paladins, and I will die on this hill, is even if they’re not meta they’ve always been floating at/near the top. Their overall group utility is not something to be overlooked.
Now I understand that when you get to title level play, pushing every ounce of DPS is the go to and relying on the rest of the group comp to make up your shortcomings is the play…but for your “average” push groups…I don’t think there’s any better pick out there aside from Paladins.
Pot meet kettle?
I mean let’s look at what you said:
“If all things are equal”
Then you equate gear / skill to being equal should be considered “all things equal”
No. DoTs are a thing. They deliver damage differently from instant melee abilities. Different classes have ramp, other classes have many short burst windows, others focus on a 2-3 minute window to have the stars align.
Having equal ilvl/skill should not = equal dps output because that means you’re looking for homogenization which is a game killer.
How do you expect a DoT class like Aff Lock to be equal to something like an Arms Warrior in a 15 second fight? You’d have buff DoTs to an insane level, which would make them extremely overpowered in anything that has a duration attached to it.
Not to mention they would benefit even more from mechanics that involve downtime on bosses (run out of boss swirly for X seconds).
Unless you dumb every fight encounter down to a Patchwerk fight, there is no absolutely no way make all the DPS have same output, even given “all things equal”.
That’s exactly what he’s saying.
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The reason they get such a big spike in damage is because of the 4-piece set bonus. Last I checked it doesn’t have a cap to how high it can stack.
It’s moreso that paladins are either too paper to handle the pulls necessary to push those levels and have to double up their cds leading to drastically shorter immortality windows, or they don’t have to and they become default due to how long they can survive obscene pull sizes.
Its like guardian incarn, if its strong enough to be worth pulling around then bear is good.