Why prot paladin is doing 3x damage of other tanks in M+ and aoe situations

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

The same abilities from bosses and trash come out, regardless of how long a fight goes. If something ins on CD, you should already know how to deal with anything incoming, preparation.

You are trying to isolate encounters when that’s not how it works. You don’t stop between pulls. Even if trash and bosses work on a timer you still alter the run based on group comp, dps, cd usage, ect. You don’t go into every pull and fight with the same CDs. Things happen and you have to adjust.

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

I DO know what I’m talking about. I ran M+ on other toons when it first came out.

You played M+ in LEGION and are basing that experience on M+ today? Based on your commentary on M+ it’s clear you actually have no idea.

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

@Sôsari-dalaran

The claim that you don’t need ability is so wild lmao.

Not my fault you don’t understand. It’s scripted, plain and simple

Is that why we had over a month of people complaining about the tuning and that M+ became too hard with the level squish? Is that why only 1% have been able to time all +12s which is where the final Affix starts? You claiming that PvE content takes no ability is hilarious.

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

I started to do it on this toon as tank and did not care for it, hence, the lack of any M+ on my profile.

You “started to”, but don’t have any on your profile… which means you either failed miserably to not have any to show for it or you are lying.

[Grizzle-eredar]

Come on, it’s scripted, it’s so easy, it’s why he’s got CE for every raid tier since CE was a thing! It’s why he’s playing in HoF guilds.

[Sôsari-dalaran]

He played one time in legion so he must be a pro. So pro that he ran some on the posting toon that he broke the charts for them to not show up.

[Henceforth-area-52]

@Sôsari-dalaran

Caring about what exactly?

@Sôsari-dalaran

Report it I really don’t care

3 posts already – how many until we can say that you actually care?
Or is this because you have this desperate need of having the “last word” in everything? – I wonder.
Are you so in need to be the “last word” on everything you participate? Boy, that is a hell of a condition.

If you really need to give the last word in every discussion you engage, I’ll give you that. I’ll the the bigger man here and walk away from this discussion. I’ll stop enabling this erratic behavior of yours in continuing engaging on it.

[Adaia-moon-guard]

No it’s because Hammer and Anvil from Lightsmith was turned up too much and Refining Fire pretty much copies the damage of Crusader’s Shield

[Sôsari-dalaran]

@Henceforth-area-52

3 posts already – how many until we can say that you actually care?

You are the one who keeps bringing it up. I told you to report it if you feel it violates tos. I don’t know what more you expect. I already pointed out that you are applying double standards by not calling out the other posts clearly violating tos who also openly admitted to doing it intentionally. Additionally, I also called you out for violating ToS yourself by calling to action other poster to flag my post. You have no moral high ground here.

@Henceforth-area-52

Or is this because you have this desperate need of having the “last word” in everything? – I wonder.
Are you so in need to be the “last word” on everything you participate? Boy, that is a hell of a condition.

It’s hilarious when you people bring up this argument because it’s ultimately ironic and hypocritical.

[Çarini-illidan]

leave prot pallys alone. they make our lives easier tbh at least in m+ lol

[Charlyce-frostmourne]

Except NASCAR isnt, its a controller series.

By that line of thoughts there should be only 1 class and the player (Driver) makes all the difference.

[Dracarian-medivh]

@Charlyce-frostmourne

Except NASCAR isnt, its a controller series.

In Nascar, you can drive Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. But every car needs to be built around the same set of rules and capabilities. Sure you can tweak the car here and there to make it faster, but ultimately, there should be no reason why every class could not be top dawg. By balancing them all this way, you get to find out who has skill, and who is just playing FotM.

[Dreadtendies-sargeras]

@Morpha-shattered-hand

the only time I don’t like that is when we are talking about mythic raid prog when it comes to DK tank just for mass grip

Broodtwister, Kil’jaeden, and Soulrender Dormazain: “Allow us to introduce ourselves.”

[Ayesha-black-dragonflight]

All dps classes should have the ability to spec/talent into builds that do the same damage as another dps class specced/talented for a specific content. A dps class of course is one with 2 or more dps talent trees.

Tanks should also have the ability to spec into damage equal to other tanks, with the exception of demon hunter, which isn’t really a “tank tank” right now and thus has high damage but very little pve viability.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Ayesha-black-dragonflight

All dps classes should hsve the ability to spec/talent into builds that do the same damage as another dps class specced/talented for a specific content.

No. Again, this makes every fight a Patchwerk fight.

@Ayesha-black-dragonflight

Tanks should also have the ability to spec into damage equal to other tanks

Also no. While I would like more balance, this isn’t how it works

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Ayesha-black-dragonflight

All dps classes should hsve the ability to spec/talent into builds that do the same damage as another dps class specced/talented for a specific content.

Do you realise how catastrophically boring that is? How many variables between specs you’d need to remove, how much nuance and uniqueness in both classes and encounters you’d have to destroy.

Even as a HoF Raider / Key Pusher, the epitome of elitist amongst according to GD, that sounds like something I’d want no part in.

[Ayesha-black-dragonflight]

Then you’ll forever have a constantly shifting meta as blizz changes things every week as they attempt to somehow balance it so they are similar damage numbers but keep failing to do so.

All dps classes are homogenized btw, always have been since cata. Its merely a question of " how big are their numbers" with different animations and either requiring them to be in melee range, or not.

Pvp of course is an entirely different question with bugs specifically affecting pvp damage as well as tons of pvp specific buffs/nerfs and even 3 talent slots for just pvp.

An ideal situation for pve is closer to FFXIV than TWW, but doing so would require basically an entire team dedicated to pvp balance on spells and skills, or just completely ignoring pvp balance altogether like many games do.

Right now you have maybe 1 person per every 2 to 3 classes employed by blizz to balance them.

[Moofurìon-bleeding-hollow]

If we are talking about rolling or using CD’s than the pally is the same.

Pallies can roll in with a WoG proc for higher block and 4 sec on concentration with SotR already rolling. If they need more they have a plethora of CD’s to choose from.

The point that poster seemed to be making was that pallies were the weakest when you had no resources going into a pack. I don’t think thats true as bears without incarn, SI etc and starting with little to no rage have almost no defensives because they take so much time to ramp up.

Don’t get me wrong bears are good but they are a ramp spec.

[Eärlindë-ravencrest]

@Grizzle-eredar

“If all things are equal”
Then you equate gear / skill to being equal should be considered “all things equal”

No, meaning when you take two different dps, all the variables affecting their damage are equal. What are you, 5? That’s some serious mental gymnastics to twist a common phrase in the way you did.

@Grizzle-eredar

there is no absolutely no way make all the DPS have same output

Yes, there is, just not in the current system because Blizzard has no desire to make all dps equal just like they have no desire to make healers equal or tanks equal. It’s pointless turmoil that is unnecessary.

[Anduin-llane]

Roll a prot paladin. Problem solved

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

Yes, there is, just not in the current system because Blizzard has no desire to make all dps equal just like they have no desire to make healers equal or tanks equal. It’s pointless turmoil that is unnecessary.

No, because players would rather their classes feel and play differently and be good / bad at different things.

There are so many different relevant damage profiles, cooldown timings, levels of mobility, levels of target scaling, spread cleave, stacked, priority, mass AoE, funnel, execute, then you’ve got cd timings 45s burst, 60s burst, 120s burst, 180s burst.

And that’s only DPS stuff, not even getting into mobility / survivability or utility.

You cannot make everyone equally good at every relevant damage profile. At least not without homogenising every spec to death.

[Grizzle-eredar]

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

That’s some serious mental gymnastics to twist a common phrase in the way you did.

This is what you said:

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

And YES, if two completely different dps classes have the same item level with equal stats and the same buffs (or no buffs at all),

You’re equating gear and stats and everything to “all things equal”.
So, yeah, learn to read.

@Eärlindë-ravencrest

Yes, there is, just not in the current system because Blizzard has no desire to make all dps equal

Because they know that would be boring. There’d be no variety, no uniqueness, nada. I’m just noticing Ellipsis covered everything I’m about to say so…

[Eärlindë-ravencrest]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

You cannot make everyone equally good at every relevant damage profile. At least not without homogenising every spec to death.

You can have every dps spec output the same total damage and still maintain the uniqueness of each spec. Everything you are talking about are individual abilities. There are not rules dictating those abilities must rank in any order or even output any given amount of damage. You can set a baseline of X amount of total damage for Y amount of time (since base-lining off of any given fight would include too many variables), which every dps will do at max level, unbuffed.

From there, buffs and gear affect that base line output. The baseline itself is like a pie with each ability for a given spec being allowed a percentage (or slice). The devs can decide how much each ability will output of the total, but every spec will output the same total, until buffs and gear come into play.

All of those unique class abilities that mitigate incoming damage, buff outgoing, etc, still matter a lot and keep each spec relevant, but the total damage is consistent across the board for all specs, before gear and buffs. So, taking two players playing a frost DK, you could very likely still get different total “buffed” output because each player is likely to gear differently and might even focus on different spell buffs (it happens). There would still be an ideal for any given spec, but everyone would have the same potential for damage output, instead of this farce of “class balance” that Blizzard has been running for two decades.

@Grizzle-eredar

You’re equating gear and stats and everything to “all things equal”.

Now you’re shifting your argument to a different statement. How do you not understand what “all things being equal” means? Not to mention, you quoted the above statement out of context to try to make yourself look correct. That’s fine, since my words are there for everyone to read, but it makes you look foolish.

@Grizzle-eredar

Because they know that would be boring. There’d be no variety, no uniqueness, nada.

No, it wouldn’t. Setting a baseline just means every dps spec has the same ouput if “all things are equal”. Once you begin stat buffing, whether gear or otherwise, things change and individual play style and priorities take over.

Additionally, it’s already boring beyond belief. There are specific talent builds, buffs, group makeups, that every group (especially in high-end content) wants and some refuse to run without those specifics. So, all that blabbering about variety and uniqueness is bull because the current system is bland and lacks any sort of option for variety due to how people see the importance of “the meta”.