Why must I PvE to do better in PvP? 😡

[Trignus-arthas]

While Guild Wars 2 is kinda broken on all sides, one thing they get absolutely right is PVP is COMPLETELY separate from PVE. PVE has zero effect on PVP. And I know people aren’t too fond of templates, but at least then you could literally JUST pvp and nothing else. WoW would be wise to allow PVP to be its own thing. And Yes I know that open world pvp would be all messed up, but to be honest it already is so leave it as is. They already have abilities have different numbers in PVP, why not gear as well?

[Lights-proudmoore]

lol it most certainly has not been always like this. They have ALWAYS had a PVP gear vendor even back in vanilla.

The removal of pvp gear vendors is a recent change.

[Chubbypengui-area-52]

Pvp vendors would be such a good thing. One small change that would get so much people I know irl playing again.

[Shandriseth-moon-guard]

I believe the reason it’s pretty convoluted now is PVE players felt forced to do PVP in earlier expansions. PVP epics were relatively easier to require in a shorter timeframe compared to PVE epics which tended to be locked behind a rep wall or RNG. Because of this, PVE players felt forced into PVP in order to stay competitive with their peers who loved PVP and PVE. So now the roles have sort of been reversed, where PVP players feel forced to PVE. Not saying I agree with the changes, but I do recall that being the history.

[anon71480856]

I thought by now everyone would have figured out the reason they did this was to increase the amount of players in any given pool.

Force PvE players into PvP, it increases how many players in the PvP pool.

Force PvP players into PvE, it increases how many players in the PvE pool.

It also skews the numbers a bit on what aspects were successful when you remove player options and force players into aspects they traditionally wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole.

Shrugs

[Nishka-stormrage-896999]

It begs the question how things would’ve turned out had this system been in reverse. Imagine having players needing to do PvP content to acquire gear for Raiding in BFA… It’s absurd there would be backlash! Pure and simple.

Yeah, if we are at this theme i hate to have to do PvP to get the PvP Essences …

[Taivora-dark-iron]

You’re not entitled to anything just because you raid. If you want to PvP and need PvP gear, you should PvP. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having to do the content for the gear that it good for said content. And I say this as someone who both raided and PvP’d back in WOD. There is no superiority for raiders in content that is not comparable to raiding. PvP is about playing against humans on equal footing. Raiding isn’t.

[Deadheart-darkspear]

This is a tough topic with a lot of polar opposite views. I agree with the OP’s sentiment - I think the PVE game and PVP game should be separated. I also agree that WoW is predominantly a PVE game - The PVP scene just isn’t nearly as big and isn’t why most people play this game.

I think Blizz actually had a great solution back in the day (during Cata, I think). I don’t remember what the system was called, but PVP gear would would scale up in PVP content and then back down in PVE content. It made PVP gearing meaningful, but essentially bottom tier in PVE content, likewise any PVE gear you earned maintained its item level in both PVE and PVP content. PVE players could still do well in PVP just by playing the content they enjoy, meanwhile PVP players got what they wanted.

I don’t know why Blizz went away from this system as I think it answered this problem and made most people happy. My guess is they viewed it as an “experiment”, viewed this solution as too complicated to maintain, or thought it would confuse newer players too much. My perspective is it was a great idea and should have been carried into new expansions - much like Legion’s world quests.

[Taivora-dark-iron]

Well, they’re wrong in their assumption. People like playing what they like to play without the devs getting in the way of that.

[Tigerfist-borean-tundra]

no superiority for raiders in content that is not comparable to raiding. PvP is about playing against humans on equal footing. Raiding isn’t.

This is where you are wrong. There is no equal in pvp . Pve players will have better gear than Pvp players . How is that equal ? Pvp becomes unbalance .

[Taivora-dark-iron]

So diminishing any semblance of balance we had before between players in PvP by making the gearing process a million times worse is okay because of that? You’re completely missing the point, regardless. YES, when I face other players, I expect us to be relatively equal other than skill (unless you do rated, where skill should be about the same). In PvE, your goal is to down NPC content with a group through coordinated efforts. They are not the same things and should not be compared.

Edit: I don’t think you understand my POV. I am siding with those who hate how PvP players have been given the shaft this expansion. I don’t even want to PvP anymore because it’s that bad.

[Kelgar-the-scryers (Kelgar)]

its what blizzard wants.

[Bëno-moon-guard]

People are still being obtuse comparing farming conflict and strife for 30 minutes a couple of times a week once with having to farm pve nonstop for gear and corruption. Le sigh.

[Nawat-emerald-dream (Nawat)]

You can actually get good PvP gear from PvP. PvE is just the quick and easy way to gear for PvP.

You say this but xaryu just put out a mage guide video. He’s an r1 player with access to the best PvP gear in the game. He’s wearing two PvP items. Everything else is pve.

PvP gearing is subpar no matter what rating you play at.

[Tigerfist-borean-tundra]

I have been arguing with the same bunch idiots about Pvp is about skill more than having gear right before 5.3 patch . Nothing has changed today . Same BS argument . I believe you need both skill and gear to win in Pvp . You can not have one without the other .

[Evevica-bloodsail-buccaneers]

They create a huge world loaded with content. They reward people for exploring and overcoming challenges.

The huge world is rather shallow when one part of it is required to do anything else in the game. So what would be the harm in letting gear get scaled down (for high geared players) or up (for new players) to an equal ilvl for instanced pvp content exactly?

PvE in this game is the lowest form of digital PvE. Oh god you fight this scripted loot pinata and you make sure not to stand in fire. Healers will clean up your mistakes and the tank makes sure the boss doesn’t hit you. Repeat 100000x looking up whatever unique gimmick the fight might have online because god forbid you figure out anything on your own in this game.

Why don’t you go play Dark Souls if all you care about is PvE?

Maybe the developers just wanted to try and get us to play all content and didn’t realize you are so pitiful at half the game

Well that’s a terrible way to do it. Since PvE progression gets to decide how good you are in PvP that means I never want to bother with PvP anymore. So I’m just stuck in PvE since there’s always going to be some tryhard who bought all their M+ and Mythic raid carries with WoW tokens that has 600k hp and does 80k dps that just presses a button and wins because math. There’s no more skill in PvP anymore.

This is the literal definition of pay2win. It might not matter so much in PvE cause who cares if someoen else gets carried through content but when those PvE rewards translate into PvP dominance that’s where I have a problem.

I’d get to enjoy both PvE and PvP if PvP had geared scaled to a level everyone shared.

Imagine having players needing to do PvP content to acquire gear for Raiding in BFA… It’s absurd there would be backlash! Pure and simple.

Yet players having to grind for a completely different set of gear just to PvP because PvE gear was deliberately put at a disadvantage isn’t absurd in your mind.

I recall the MoP legendary cloak required PvP to obtain, and of course, once it was obtained, its effects were cancelled when in battlegrounds to ensure PvPers weren’t put at a disadvantage.

I mean it wasn’t great but it at least made sense. If you want to be good at PvP, you level up in PvP. If you want to be good at PvE, you level up in PvE. Someone that did more dps than you in PvE did so because they progressed further in PvE than you. Just like how someone who wrecked you in PvP did so because they participated in more PvP than you.

Personally I’d prefer to have the PvE part be the only one with gear progression. PvP should be more balanced so skill in the moment of the fight determines the winner. But it was a hell of a lot better than having PvE decide who gets to be good at PvP.

As for the legendary cloak whining really? We’re going to compare getting a full set of M+ or Mythic Raid gear to be competitive in PvP to winning one random battleground to get your cloak? Really? You can queue up for a battleground and afk the match and still win half of them. You’re still salty about this?

[Evevica-bloodsail-buccaneers]

Someone who does both has an advantage in both (getting extra items that can corrupt, high item levels for high arena ranks).

The game is designed to encourage doing both, especially with some BiS essences needing PvP. Too bad if you only like one, maybe try a different game? There are plenty out there that revolve around PvP.

Except doing PvP doesn’t really give you an advantage in PvE. There goes your entire argument I guess. Remind me when you ever have to get 2500+ rating to get an advantage in PvE this entire expansion and I’ll agree with you.

The best pvpers in the world have full sets of PvE gear. Maybe one or two PvP items. Like FFS you don’t even need a classic PvP trinket anymore. You are given that for free just for clicking into your talent menu.

[Demontune-area-52]

the game is heavily broken at the moment.
Arenas with corruption shouldnt be a thing.

[Meezah-moon-guard]

I mean, a lot of pve stuff is also stuck behind pvp, so i guess it’s part of the game?
If you want a 100% pvp experience in which you don’t have to farm or grind to be efficient, MOBAs are there for you, you can’t expect a pve game to focus on the extra content that is pvp over the core content.

[Evevica-bloodsail-buccaneers]

I can tell you are at earliest a Cata-Baby by your post.

Back in there day there was only 1 real way to gear up enough to win constantly at pvp, and that was raiding. It should return to this.

Raiding? I think you mean having no life and just afk farming AV till you’re at Grand Marshall then get a free set of raid quality gear.

Also I love when people try to bring classic into this. As if being a fresh level capped BFA player at ilvl 295 fighting against someone in ilvl 475+ gear is even remotely comparable to your ilvl 60 fresh level capped classic player vs an ilvl 75 raider.

Like dude. There are still PvP videos to this day showing a naked rogue with white daggers outplaying raid/HWL/GM geared players. Just get out already. Most classes didn’t even get the stats they needed from their gear. It was honestly only warriors that benefited the most. Nobody feared your +spirit hunter.

The game was balanced so that stats from gear didn’t matter at all. Cause you could replace your entire set of gear for garbage greens because they had resistance on them and still progress. That’s how little your “real gear” meant. A lot of abilities had set damage and didn’t even scale off of stats FFS.

See I can tell you’re just some pre-wotlk baby pretending to be a classic player because you think the WoW Classic we got now is even remotely the same to the real WoW classic that we played originally. The 1.12 naxx balance patch that was the shortest era of the game being where they start off with was a mistake.