Dude, you of all people go to great lengths to justify away even the slightest grey thing the Alliance has done, the single moment it is brought up. You keep saying that the Alliance is not portrayed as this flawless faction of demigods, but you always seem to revel in it. Anduin is a symptom of a far larger problem with how the Blue Team is handled or written. All of their problems are external. None of them of note are internal. They cannot do a single even slightly grey act without knowing Blizz will come in and justify all its greyness away. Every. Single. Time.
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That doesn’t mean that would be “blue horde” that mean that the alliance is also a faction with both good and bad things. Gray.
is not my fault that blizzard writes the horde as the agressor, meaning that the agressor is less justified.
Problem with all that is that blizzard goes too far with no payoff.
What use do we have for moralhighground if nothing will come from it?
Whats wrong with feeling justified with your faction? The alliance is simply not the ones that start the conflicts. i would have liked that was different in bfa, it didn’t happened and is even worse.
i disagree, we have examples of “gray” moments in the alliance simply because the horde starts the wars doesn’t mean that i am blind to the bad stuff the alliance does, is just that i feel like those gray moments aren’t nearly as bad to what the horde does instead keeping the balance of atrocities in the horde’s favor.
That isn’t me, that is blizzard.
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Then name one? Name one of these grey acts that Blizz didn’t just whitewash away, or deliberately distance the Alliance Faction, Characters, and Races from; by making those “grey acts” the acts of someone opposed to the Alliance and its people? Because, the truly monstrous acts that traditionally Alliance races commit are never from members of the Alliance themselves. Blizz always makes that distinction very clear, the “Alliance” is always “Pure” and “Good”.
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Genocide isnt grey, The alliance being grey would be like if the battle of ashran was reversed, like instead of the horde attacking the alliance for looking for that super weapon, the alliance attacked the horde who where looking for the weapon, it makes more sense, they could do it out of fear due what happened with garrosh, and they didnt trust them.
usually these acts don’t come from the main characters because they do are kinda good guys. they don’t want to conquer the world but as for “grey” we have the purge. aand maaaybe dazarlazor.
with some grey stuff with the void elfs and the dark irons, the problem of all that is the context of it, it was after the horde kinda commited genocide.
so it is pretty small in comparassion.
That isn’t because the alliance is “good” is because the enemy is absurdly black, legion level.
The races,on the other hand are not so “heroic” in the normal sense. the humans in particular attacks forsakens, orcs and trolls.
we see some kultirans torturing some of them.
why not? i am told that the horde can have some bad apples among them and still have others that are “good”.
That makes the faction “gray” or not ?.
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sylvanas isnt horde anymore. Its almost like everyone who ever did really bad things in the horde are killed or booted out of the story. Actually it would be fun to see you get what you want, only for the worgen to be stripped and destroyed like the forsaken are.
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You could always point to Rogers in MoP, but that was still in response to the Horde’s attempted genocide in Cata and destruction of a major city.
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Metzen said the last thing he did at Blizzard was he wrote the BFA intro cinema. And he was shocked about Teldrassil being burned as that was all written after he left.
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So? The lead writer since cata was David kosak and then Alex and you know they said over and over that they had general plan about three xpacs ahead, I really doubt mezten didnt know that sylvanas wasn’t the villian.
So … you can’t name one? LOL! You cannot name a single “grey” act of the Alliance that didn’t get diluted through the floor through justifications and excuses? You also have to rely on two brand new factions of people, who may have had some grey in them in concept … but whatever “grey” they committed was before they officially joined. So … yeah, you’re full of crap. You revel in playing a Faction with Moral Absolutism, but hate admitting it … so you keep acting like its actually portrayed as not being a Faction of largely flawless people and flawless cultures.
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Is commiting genocide against the burning legion a bad thing?
There are 2 options, either dismantle the horde or have alliance race after alliance race wiped out. There is no inbetween as there can be no peace with the horde.
Anduin is doing the same mistake again, and I wonder which race the horde will wipe out next. I mean no other race will have it as bad as the night elves with all their civilians being in the maw forever (just lol) but it surely will happen again.
did you just ignored that i did named more than “one”?.
attacking the goblins to capture thrall. right?.
that hasn’t been whitewashed !
Hmm… did you just also ignored that i said void elfs and iron dwarfs ?
i don’t “hate admitting it” i am extremely proud of it.
Define “flawless”. people that don’t make mistakes?
or people that tends to not decide that is a good day to kill stuff for fun?
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This thread summarized.
Followed by thinking this is a good story:
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I think we should kill:
-Sylvanas
-Jaina
-Tyrande
-Anduin
We can replace them with:
-Calia Menethil
-Bob the Archmage
-Sam the Manshee
-Tom the Prettyboy
After we get rid of every character in WOW and replace them with generic trash versions, we can finally take WOW out back and put it out of it’s misery.
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Technical nitpick, but this was something John Hight said.
Uh, no. That would require them to learn from their mistakes.
They have repeatedly proven not to have done so.
Sylvanas was, for all intents and purposes, a spider. She was by no means a good person, but not unrepentantly evil- she was sensible evil, where, if you stood where she stood, the lengths in which her and the Forsaken went in the name of the survival could even seem reasonable. To the Horde’s end of the bargain, she offered the Forsaken, who’s efforts lined up well with the Horde. Someone else brought these up first, but you can see them actually doing things of benefit, starting with Stonetalon Mountain (pre-Cata), again in Hellfire Peninsula and onwards. It’s not as if they’ve been dragging their feet.
Sylvanas is not the defining character for the Horde, there is no defining character for the Horde because the Horde is supposed to be a mob of different cultures that don’t always mesh well, such as the Trolls and Tauren butting heads, but the Orcs remaining their glue. That’s what I liked about the Horde, in that they were a Horde of drastically different cultures, none of which shared any similar ground, but all threw in together in the name of survival.
Sylvanas was a character that had been there since the beginning, something the Horde roster is currently lacking sorely. She has deep roots with the story and so much to actually explore the story with, yet they arbitrarily made her insane to make a villain to everyone.
It’d be like arbitrarily killing Jaina far earlier in the story because she stepped aside for her father’s death. It’s wasting an asset that is currently in the story, that can be used and expanded upon.
You can’t possibly look at BFA, from any angle, and say “yeah, this is normal for Sylvanas, Wrathgate was totally her call all along, yeah, she totally did some good things to set up an even bigger lie, even though her end objective was to cause the most death… which she could had done earlier and to the same effect, if she didn’t do the good thing, she totally lied to herself in case any mind readers were in the room.”. It was a unmitigated feces show of a story and her death’ll be another, just as big, turd.
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You … really dont want to go down the path of “This isn’t the real Sylvanas” with me.
While I fully admit that there were aspects of her characterization that could have led her down another path, the path she went down did not surprise me in the slightest. I literally spent the entire expansion waiting for her “sudden but inevitable betrayal”. I spent all of BfA just waiting for it to be revealed that she was just using the Horde/Forsaken for some personal game; and she was going to discard us once we ceased to be of sufficient use. I spent the better part of 8 years waiting for an answer to the question of whether she’d abandon her Bulwark and “Alliance of Convenience” once they ceased to be of enough value; just like she did her Arrows.
Let’s get into it.
I definitely will.
You do not get to say “all that content you absorbed for the last decade and a half meant literally nothing, this is Sylvanas and the Forsaken all along, forget everything else established.”
There is no possible way you could say that Sylvanas going mustache-twirling evil was anything other than a sudden, extreme asspull.
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