just an analogy. people who play online rated chess matches, the way to find out if they are using a bot to play for them, is if they ever pick sub-optimal plays.
a computer will always pick the best move every turn. a human player might make a poor move this turn, if it gives them a larger advantage down the road.
you would never be able make this work the way you want.
but you would, and i think i said this earlier, get matched with really really really terrible specs. Would not be fun to queue for rated battlegrounds and get queued with 5 demo locks and a holy priest and 2 mistweaver monks and a brewmaster vs 3 boomkins 2 afllocks a fire mage a rogue an hpal a disc priest a rshaman and a dh.
Not even close to the same, simply selecting your role isn’t the same as the pre-game lobby in LoL where it would be like picking your class, spec and talents before the game starts.
This wouldn’t work with RBGS considering it just plops you into the game with a premade team the system brought together.
If you want solo que to work for RBGs the game would have to considering a ton of variables that would make que times absolutely insane. On top of that if you wanted a competent working team it would have to follow the meta and people would cry about that.
Did that player achieve a W or a L? Data gathered is data that can be aggregated to tell a story as to what is success and what isn’t.
If someone is able to simulate a bot in WoW that is comparable to a 1.8k+ player I’d be amazed. Currently bots are just pathing and rotation monkies.
The queue system would be refined not to double stack class/specializations and attempt to get a far deeper reading compared to Tank/Healer/DPS. It should accurately break it down to what that respective role is considered based upon the class/role of the player.
Correct, Blizzard’s current system is entirely based upon just getting the right ingredients for the job rather than attempting a complete breakdown of class/roles in the queue.
Built by the system to have wide ranges of healers and dps. There won’t be 7 Boomy 3 Resto Druid teams. It would actively discourage that unless said players were in the queue for a very long time.
Only insane because no one has developed it or tried it. If it’s a failure that’s alright but, it hasn’t been tried out of ignorance, fear, lack of ability, and/or lack of resources.
The system works for LoL because you don’t have a class you main and are queing on like WoW, those are picked after the teams have been assembled.
If you want fast solo que times the game would have to enforce a meta and build teams based around that and to prevent lop sided teams with 4 Rogues or a team with no stealth classes on Arathi Basin.
It sounds simple, “Just give us solo que.” but to actually implement it properly is a ton of work for something a lot of people wouldn’t use anyway as the majority of players want to climb rating which means they’ll be using LFG with groups that use Discord.
It’s not worth the resources to develop, I would rather those people work on improving what’s already in the game.
You by queueing into the match you’ve already locked your Class/Role/Specialization. A system that can accurately gauge what that is can also put together a raid for a BG.
Correct, it would actively try to prevent class stacking. The meta would be XHealers, YTanks, Z DPS with the DPS further broken down upon the role that specialization plays. A druid DPSer could range from a Boomkin to a Feral. Widely different playstyles and offensive power. Having these checks in place could help decide what BG is a good matchup for the players in the queue. If there are no tanks present in the queue it will deactivate FC based games. If someone enjoys playing as a FC that gamemode is active.
Rating climbing would be based upon the metrics provided. When you join a random BG you’re either rewarded the loser or winner spoils. The system should gauge if the player was playing at an optimal level and be rewarded for it. It resting purely on a W/L scenario isn’t an accurate measure of the player entirely.
What exactly is in game currently that needs improving? LFG system for RBGs could be one but, it’s a bull thing to say that they should focus on something already in game when PvP has been afterthought since Catacylsm.
I stopped reading there. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove here. The game is how it is now. If gearing/progression changes, it will likely be due to an expansion, not months after the launch of a new one. Sorry.
If there isn’t even a conversation or a desire for something how does it get docketed for production? You failing to comprehend basic business principles is not in way shape or form an argument.
This is a video game to me. If I stop having fun I stop playing. I don’t try to change the way rewards work to fit my own entitled desires. Best of luck to you with your game developer goals of 2021.
I don’t think you understand why this system wouldn’t work, the que times would make it dead on arrival. Attempting to form teams based on MMR, Tanks, Heals and a properly assorted DPS roster would easily put ques into 30+ mins.
You need a tank for every single map, they’re far too strong at disruption and flag defense on Arathi/Gilneas and even good on Silvershard. It’s not just Warsong and Twin Peaks where they’re needed, especially Demon Hunters are important as they can Spectral Sight any stealthies attempting to back cap from across the map.
I’m also guessing you don’t play LoL, solo que works because you’re not selecting a class and can assign two different roles. You pick your champion after getting into the game and counter-picking is very important. It would be like having access to every class and spec when you’re waiting for the game to start to form your team comp, LoL’s competitive que system is incompatible with WoW. OP said, “Why not just copy it from LoL?” but you can’t do that, they’re just fundamentally different games.
The amount of work it would take to get Solo que to work just isn’t worth it, the few people who do want it would end up not using it anyway due to que times. I still don’t understand why they can’t just join no-comms teams, there are plenty at a variety of ratings and it would be much faster than a properly implemented solo que.
Based upon what evidence? Ion’s twenty second remark or the dying playerbase?
You don’t need a tank. It may or may not be preferred for a certain map. That doesn’t dictate that it’s required.
I don’t. I play DotA.
Solo queue would skip the Hero selection process and just put you into a queue for that role you’ve already selected.
Maybe if you’re basing the entire game format around counter picking. WoW wasn’t fundamentally built upon counter picking. It was adhoc solo/group/raid rated queue with the Honor system. Arena came afterwards created comps but, it wasn’t a “counter pick” based game. There were advantages and disadvantages. You couldn’t dictate what comp you were facing no different from my suggestion.
No, just the one you’re currently logged into to and actively waiting to play.
Different yes. But that doesn’t mean similar systems won’t work with them. I’m guessing LoL uses email/username logins. Has the ability to chat with each other via text. Has built in voice communication. Uses the keyboard and mouse while allowing the player to keybind. Has the ability to allow the player to click into different pages to navigate what they’re looking to do. Just because the game setup is different doesn’t mean it doesn’t use similar or the same systems.
Based upon what?
Queue times lengths based upon what evidence? Random BGs are nearly instant and that’s with a pool of players who are interested in PvP but, willing to get crushed by Glads/R14. If the pool was opened up to casuals where they would encounter players of equal skill/gear that would make their entry to PvP easier and increase the active PvP pool.
Because I don’t care to spend hours a week looking for a group. Nor do I want my play experience to be that of sitting in LFG either recruiting people into a group or attempting to join one. Having to possibly rebuild or join a new raid because people left the group. The current system is garbage for finding people to play with and PvP guilds are essentially dead. Maybe the Horde side is incredibly active but, on Alliance it’s quiet.
TBH i’m not sure it would work well. I mean it sounds fun and this game has alot of potential for single players to really shine and carry teams in a bg environment. But i’d be concerned that it would overtake every aspect of the PVP side of the game. Queue problems for higher rated players in people who wanna play with their friends. Duo queue may be a good idea as well but I think it would just invalidate any other pvp mode in the game, also there’s the frusteration of getting matched up with fresh 60s who just get steamrolled because they have no gear, then it just becomes more about who gets luckier in terms of one team out gearing the other. TO make it work right it would insure queue times would be horrible
I would love solo-queue rated PVP content, for many of the reasons Roelath mentions, but most especially because it reduces the amount of time you waste finding groups of similar rating/skill.
It also allows underrepresented specs to actually play PVP competitively, as opposed to not being invited to groups and being excluded because of the meta. It opens up the possibility for spec-based recognition for things like “the best x solo-queue Mistweaver in the game” that you know got there because of skill as opposed to just knowing the right people to play the game with.
I think even the devs have recognized that solo-queue rated PVP would be very popular. There’s a reason it gets brought up over and over again – many people want it. At a time I had quit WOW because the lack of features like this prevented me from playing the game without dedicating an inordinate amount of time. I sense that there are many players that have quit that would come back with such a feature. I basically unsub my subscription after my payment each month because I don’t want to have it auto-rebilled, specifically because of the lack of solo-queue rated PVP content and the amount of time it takes to find and join groups if you’re not already part of a tight community.
If this system ends up being favored overall is that really such a bad thing? If it was a hot mess and no one enjoyed because of queue times, etc they’d revert back to the old ways.
Similar to other games in the market it would take the combined MMR of both players and try to accurately place them in a match for that combined MMR.
This goes beyond solo/duo. It’s intended in my version to be a solo/group/raid queue that players who just want to play with each other can do so. Even up to 10 people if they prefer. There are Epic BGs out there that could be utilized for balancing purposes.
Players would get placed where they belong overtime but, at least those undergeared players MMRs will stay/drop to where it belongs. They’d vers against players of equal skill/gear combinations and what would be the complaint at those ratings? Just imbalanced class/roles that should be called out on for being too strong. There are plenty of specializations that are garbage in PvP and they deserve some love beyond PvE raiding.
No different from random BGs but, at least those heavily geared players during a MMR reset will be placed at higher levels and you’ll more likely come across players who are around your gear/skill level. Just like the current MMR systems.
No one knows for sure. With MMR combinations, utilizing class/role representation for BGs, merc mode, Epic BGs, etc it could work to be faster and far more balanced for everyone. You’ll have All Star players in a Alterac Valley recapping while having 1200 rated players attempting to take down Captains with a strong raid behind them. Both sides will have weak and strong troopers on both sides making it balanced.
The optimal game would be to have equal footing for all players but, if the time for a queue takes too long it’s preferable to just get a game going for everyone’s sake.
I don’t really get this argument. Sure, some maps may be better with tanks, but this is something that is easily engineerable from a solo-queue design standpoint – just enforce equal number of tanks (or lack of them) on both teams. From a queue-time perspective, you could even skew it to have more or fewer flag-carrying maps lined up based on the number of tanks in queue.
The problem is not only the big one about getting into teams in a reasonable amount of time for whatever reason (you don’t meet the iLevel bar, you don’t have the experience proof, you’re not considered a meta class/spec), but also that the yolo no-comms teams are not a way to be grouped with players that are around your CR, which solo-queue would solve.
The weirdest thing about the lack of a solo queue for it is that even Blizzard’s other games have solo queues for ranked play. WoW is the only one of their properties that puts all these weird barriers to keep casual players from being able to experience what everyone else can.
You can solo queue for Skirmishes to experience Arena.
You can solo queue for LFR to experience Raiding.
You can solo queue for random Battlegrounds to experience Battlegrounds.
You can solo queue for Heroic/Normal dungeons to experience Dungeons.
If they allowed solo que to RBG then it simply becomes random battlegrounds offering alot more Conq points, and would greatly hurt the RBG community.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been all over the forums stating that I think the gear discrepancy and the current burst meta is walling off content for casual players who only like to do random bg’s. I like to heal on the MW monk and most the people that I played rated with have moved on so I don’t think I will ever go back into that area of the game but it was one of the most fun PVP experiences I had and would not want to jeopardize that for all those that run that content .
Everyone who wants solo RBG queues keeps handwaving this point away. We already have (at times) 10+ minute queues for unranked battlegrounds which has the largest population of players queuing for it, and the most lax matchmaking rules.
Smaller population + more complicated matchmaking rules = good luck getting a match to fire
