Why is the dungeon community just so hostile?

Community General Discussion
43

I will just repeat this again, because… the reason why M+ is popular and was introduced, is because people wanted more forms of PvE, liked Challenger dungeons from MoP and WoD, and have been pushing to go faster and faster in dungeons since Vanilla.

This isn’t disputable or up for discussion; this is just objective factual reality.

Now whether you want to argue whether that’s good or not, that I’m not going to bother with. Because overwhelmingly folks who go down the route you have aren’t going to argue with upsides and downsides to different types of systems in good faith. If you were to, you’d be the first one to do so.

Cool. Two people over the course of 18 years said a thing … Two people. Two.

Of course not! Why? Because folks want to go fast.
I don’t think you realize my point was that if folks wanted to go slowly (ergo why there’s an ‘if’) players will go slowly. Folks don’t want to, but rather want to see big damage numbers, actually get to heal something, and actually get to tank something more meaningful than one or two Defias Miners at a time.

You saying “IN an LFD ??? Nope” proves that I’m right. Folks want to go fast, simple as that. Ain’t anything other than that.

You are harkening back to a day before folks would run dungeons quickly, which has never been any point in time throughout all of WoW’s history. So folks usually resort back to Vanilla and TBC … because players were so bad at the game, classes were so awful at maintaining aggro, to heal, and do any kind of AoE damage that dungeons would take normally 1+ hour(s) to complete.

It ain’t a strawman - it is the thing you are asking for.

I’m not an apologist. I care about intellectual honesty and this thread and post of yours is devoid of that. All you have done is make appeals, pleadings, and implicitly called folks elitists for pointing out the simple reality that everyone (except a miniscule minority of players, who usually dwell on these forums and don’t actually play the game that much) - new and old player - wants to go fast.

You can’t argue against that so you call me an apologist, all whilst admitting that you are in fact just hopping around onto different characters to continue trolling on 'em.

Because people loved the Mage Tower and folks enjoy LFR as the tourism mode it is literally designed to be.

Delves is an endgame progression system for solo players who enjoy PvE but absolutely do not under any circumstance want to go beyond world quests and solo PvE encounters as their form of endgame experience.

Follower dungeons were included into the game due to the fact that a lot of zone-specific storylines conclude with a dungeon. So folks who absolutely refuse to play with other players and instead just want to level characters, enjoy the story, and then leave the game until the next patch where they do this all over again … So they can experience the conclusion of the zone’s storyline. That’s it.

Folks asked for these things, so we got 'em. Just like how players had been asking for Blizzard to do something with dungeons and offer more avenues for PvE players to do something that wasn’t tied to raid nights. Challenge dungeons was one such thing, it was successful and well-received and thus continued into WoD and was then developed into M+.

Since players want to go as fast as possible and want more PvE avengues to engage with, so making it a progression system with inspiration from Diablo’s rift made perfect sense and fit the playerbase’s requests perfectly.

44

Yes if they pulled numerous packs and didnt use any defensives then they should die.

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45

Wanting to go fast in a dungeon ain’t toxic. If it were, then the game would’ve died before getting a second expansion. Folks have been pushing folks to go faster and faster since the original release of the game.

It is ya’ll who keep shouting “It is our way or else everyone else is toxic” who promote toxicity on these forums. Because people don’t behave like this in-game.

When the majority of the playerbase wants to go fast, why on earth would they design the game to be the opposite of what players want … ?

Ya’ll are ignoring that you who are asking for things to go extremely slow is a minority. One that is so small that it basically doesn’t even exist at all in-game. So if ya’ll want this to be how dungeons are played, it is on ya’ll’s heads to find other likeminded players. Because everyone else wants to go fast.

46

i remember that was how TW dungeons scaled during BFA and there was a massive complaint. They had to revert it to satisfy the same people complaining on forums.

47

I’ve been playing for one month now. This is exactly how I feel. Barely anyone talks ig because it often feels like if they do talk, it’s a judgement/threat/criticism. Then you actually be chill with people and they’re earnestly surprised to see you acting so nicely towards them. It’s sad to see.

8 Likes
48

Its almost like there will be complaining no matter what blizzard does

49

yet you think the right solution is to make normals and tw dungeons m+ difficulty so people cant pull like MDI

50

You got some super WoW goggles on my dude.

The developers created the foundation for players to go fast. I’m not advocating for the game to be like EQ days, but what we have in the game today is boring.

If I wanted to smash dungeons ARPG style, then I would just play POE or Diablo. Turning WoW into an action RPG might be fun for you, but I feel like dungeon design has been super boring since Wrath days because of this design.

Blizzard controls how their game plays, the players merely just respond to that design.

I don’t get this mindset of rushing through everything either? 10 min dungeon runs aren’t fast enough? That is with normal pulling as well.

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51

Most DPS step in to a group believing they are the new and hottest thing and no one plays as good as them. It’s a numbers rush for these lower tier DPS in many ways.

I say this in no ill will or offense. But desire and capability are two very different things.

Most DPS don’t even know when to use their big CD’s and use them on small pulls, then when big pulls come, those pulls last longer and hurt more.

Again, disire and capability are two different things.

1 Like
52

It’s an odd take to begin with. This whole “We’ve been doing this since Vanilla” comment would imply to me that you’re tired of it more than anything else.

Why even play if you just want everything over with quickly because it’s all that miserable for you?

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53

I was voted to be kicked after I BL’ed on trash in a TW dungeon about 1 year ago or less, it was comical.

54

I was in a +6 NW the other day doing 1M HPS (996k) and the group was wiping to rot dot from Blightbone. After wipe someone in group asked what the problem is, and the DK immediately said “healer is AFK.” So I said okay, bye.

DK then starts /whispering me the prototypical “GO BACK TO STARDEW VALLEY” explicative-laden toxicity purge… which usually means the problem is them.

But people these days are just so full of unventable negativity that they will literally pick anywhere that they don’t run a risk of getting slapped as an avenue to unload. Really sad and borderline pathetic.

tl;dr: They’re unhappy people venting their negativity. Not your problem. Mommy and daddy beat them and didn’t listen.

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55

M+ and the development team leaning into “speed runs” and the “go fast” playstyle has resulted in the most toxic abusive selfish inconsiderate gameplay I’ve seen from any game ever. The fact that 1 player has so much control over the other 4 players has to be the single most abusive game structure ever. This brutally toxic abusive “go fast” playstyle is the exact opposite of what brings players together in an MMORPG.

Follower dungeons, delves, and raid story mode are absolutely great! But again it’s not the reason I choose to still play the most popular MMORPG of all time and it’s definitely not the reason I started WOW to begin with 20 years ago.

So many things are great about WOW but the MMO part is more like we are playing a solo game with others in the world doing the same thing. It’s a far departure from what made the game great.

But I still enjoy the game since there are these different mods to enjoy. That way I can steer clear of the abusive toxic inconsiderate selfish gameplay that you see in normal, heroic, time-walking, LFR, and M+0-5 dungeons.

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56

Out of all the characters I’ve ever leveled I don’t think I’ve ever been vote kicked from a dungeon. The only vote kicks I’ve even seen happen is when ppl is afk at the start of the dungeon or flat out offline.

57

Exactly, I feel like so many of these rushers are just bored with the game, they don’t enjoy it one bit, they just have to get their daily fix, because they’re addicted.

Blizzard has created a mess of their community, and their game trying to cater to these tryhard TikTok gamers.

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58

Elitism is the name of the game. Coupled with MCS, everyone thinks their time is worth solid gold all the while literally wasting it away.

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60

ah yes the good ol’ “just get over the toxic community” post

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61

I didn’t want to come off as toxic. But, if you got kicked from a normal, Then they must have had a reason. I’ve never been kicked from any LFR/G groups. Did you go AFK? Where you being Toxic to them as they where you? So many other reason could have played a factor here.

62

They are worried about their mailbox dancing time being cut into.

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63

??? wtf are you on?

Where in that statement does it say make them M+ difficulty? Are you even able to read or are you trying to suggest that using a defensive is a M+ strategy?

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