Well, yes. Sometimes it’s inevitable that they die. But the point here, and the reason why Saurfang didn’t like it is because Sylvanas intentionally targeted those innocents. They didn’t die passively, but Sylvanas actively tried to have them all die in the flames (and succeeded).
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Targeting innocents is nothing new. It’s a standard part of a total war strategy. There isn’t a country on the planet, including this one where targeting civilians is never an option.
Sylvannas is out to make war… not play pattycake.
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In fantasy warrior cultures they tend to have a it is dishonorable to kill none combatants . Then again that rareky stops anyone.
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And it’s hardly a universal code. Neither the Alliance, nor the Horde has a “hands off the civvies” policy, not even Thrall’s Horde as he has to intervene to stop two of his soldiers from killing a child that they had picked up. He had to give them stern orders backed by a warning of consequences if they were not fully obeyed in spirit.
Individual commanders may invoke such an order as Saurfang did regarding L’ordanel, but it’s considered an unusual level of restraint.
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Well yes, but then again this is a game and not real life. Stories there should be different. Horrible things happen in real life, things that make people angry, things that get no solution…
But this is a game, it’s not supposed to make us sad or angry at the things happening. Maybe temporary, but then the stories should be continued and turn around. That’s what makes stories great, they shock you or disappoint you and then at some point they make you happy again, atleast in WoW they should.
Surely, in real life, not everyone will be able to live with themselves after they murder innocents
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As uncomfortable as gender issues can be.
I think that point is solid considering that blizzard themselves went out of their to push for females representation in their media.
Then turn right around and make the next expansion about an heroic white male king and his old solider buddy against a rather stereotypical female villain.
I mean, either it’s a poorly executed troll, or just an impressive degree of tone deafness.
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You know… I don’t think normal people think that way.
Why does gender even matter in this discussion?
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I think you are overthinking things. Sylvannas has been set up to be an Arthas paralell. She even creates a new Sylvannas in the form of Daerlyn for pretty much the same reasons Arthas did it to her.
Also keep in mind that both Night Elf and Naga cultures tend to be heavily female when it comes to political leadership, that’s been a staple feature of both since the RTS came out.
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Sylvanas is, and has always been, the most morally dubious racial leader by a country mile; I don’t think it’s a reflection of any underlying political views that such a character would be made into a villain, especially considering that we went through this exact scenario with a male character just a few years ago.
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My biggest fear is, and it will probably come true, that she will end up as some kind of hero and that we will all have to work alongside her and the Teldrassil event stays unanswered and forgotten (by blizzard atleast).
They already went ahead and made Saurfang seem like the greatest guy ever with these cinematics. Made him look like he never did mistakes and all he did was good. Pretend that it was all sylvanas alone.
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How was she elevated based on her own actions? She got her power and ruthlessness from Arthas, her freedom and subjects from Illidan(indirectly), her throne from Garithos, her unstoppable-until-it-isn’t superweapon from Putress prior to his defection, her immortality from Odyn(indirectly), and her other throne from Vol’jin and an unknown third party. The woman that actually earned things on merit died by powersliding into a runeblade.
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That itself is a retcon. Originally Arthas had her tortured for days before killing her with Frostmourne.
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Arthas killed his father to access to leader, Sylvanas was given leadership by a literal deux ex machina.
The comparison is not exact, and seems more artificial manufactured to set up conflict rather the natural fall that Arthas story was.
Yes, but ascension to leaderships was out of character, literally place by spooky unknown voices.
I do agree she is acting in character but she artificially place in situation her character path would not have taken her too.
Her villainy was underhanded and in shadows.
It wasn’t blowing up a world trees because she was triggered.
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Discussions like this is why I really, REALLY wish Blizzard would make the Horde, especially the Orcs, look inward and ask themselves how much ‘honor’ can really be had in battle, and if their mentality of honor through battle and victory is really right.
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Lol. How about the fact that she got murdered by a lunatic, lost everything she cared about and was reduced to slave, broke free and cobbled a bunch of disorganized undead into a nation by herself. She built the Forsaken civilization from the ground up and led them successfully to get their revenge on Arthas. She saved the Forsaken from Garrosh in Gilneas. Finally she saved the Horde on the Broken Shore which was part of the reason Vol’jin gave her the title of warchief.
You mean she was murdered and raised by a mad man, then made the best of her situation?
Illidan did not do that for her. It was a side effect of what he planned and once again she seized the opportunity.
Outsmarting some bigot is an example of taking the throne based on her own merits (intelligence) thank you.
The Valk’yr offered her a deal, she accepted the deal. That’s has nothing to do with Odyn.
Nice try though.
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Do you work for the state department lol
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The parralell is the War of Thorns and Arthas’ campaign on Quel’thelas Sylvannas played the same role that Daerlyn did and died and was raised in a same type of context.
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But Illidan is the one that freed her and the other first generation Forsaken when he cracked the Frozen Throne, then she just kind of got handed a nation by Garithos after she betrayed and killed him. I could be misremembering the mission, but did her and Varimathras do anything at all?
She indirectly injured him when two defectors dumped blight on the Scourge and allied armies, then commanded things in the Pit of Saron. The lion’s share of the work was the Argent Crusade, Ebon Blade, Alliance, and the other Horde races.
*Given command of an invasion she had apparently already been planning according to Chronicle.
She gave the order to run away after Vol’jin got nearly bisected, then a voice in his head gave her the position for its own reasons.
E: You edited while I was typing. If you wanna continue the exchange then feel free.
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Because he FEELS BAD about committing genocide against a civilian population.
Just like he felt bad about the time before that.
And the time before that…
And the time before that…
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