Why is mage trash dps now?

Classes Mage
83

Lol I told you.

1 Like
84

The issue is the way youre painting these pictures.

There is no fight in BOD on any single boss where the difference is that huge is the issue with your scenario. Its kind of easy to adjust numbers to fit your argument in some obscure way like you did. In what fight in BOD are you a 22% difference from the other upper mid tier dps specs? Im not gonna compare you to the top because then you’re implying you should be top 5 and thats just not the case this tier.

Champions of Light.
Worst mage spec is Fire and it is 8% below the #5 dps spec.

Jadefire.
Worst mage spec is Arcane and it is 13% behind the #7 top dps spec,Frost mage.

Grong.
Worst mage spec is Fire and it is 8.2% below #8 which is Destro.

Conclave.
Worst mage spec is Frost and it is 6.33% behind #6 which is Destro.

King Ras.
Worst mage spec is Arcane by 13.66% behind #7 which is Destro.

Mekka.
Worst mage spec is Frost by 8.7% behind #6 which is Demo.

Stormwall.
Worst mage spec is Frost by 9.6% behind #9 which is Destro.

Jaina.
Worst mage spec is Fire by 13.5% behind #8 which is Demo.

In your example you gave one with a 22% difference. There is no actual 22% difference in any of the real data. Which is why your picture paints something far from how it actually is.

With my data it shows how far the worst mage spec is in relation to upper tier dps, which one could argue you should be more competing with mid tier dps as thats where the balancing tends to trend. I know everyone wants to do spriest levels of dps, but thats not the normal.

In my example i tried to put you with a spec thats not the outlier in these fights, and someone closer to the top. I also skipped opulence as that fight is just a padfest.

So with that on average you’re worst mage spec is about 10% behind. Looking at it, i do believe you’re a bit behind, but no where as bad as people will make you think the class is, but a bit worse than i thought. Also i did a lot of my previous posts while working and on my phone so some of the stuff was a bit of guess work, this was all done at my computer and should be pretty accurate.

Feel free to double check it, i am after all just a stupid truck driver =)

3 Likes
85

Not going to say much, but those numbers are the worst example of cherry picking I’ve ever seen. Rather than state how much behind the number 1 spec, you seem to randomly pick a comparison based on anything from #5 to #9. How does that mean anything at all?

Also, I really don’t want to have to constantly switch specs just to not totally suck. I don’t like all the mage specs. I’m casual, so doesn’t impact me much. I just don’t play my mage.

7 Likes
86

I literally said why and how I picked my numbers…

Cherry picking??? You act as if I compared to you the spec right next to the lowest mage spec… I compared you to upper tier dps here. If I was trying to be more in favor of my argument I should of always compared you to the #12 spot because then you would be middle of the pack where the game is balanced the most.

Also typically the people who feel the need to switch classes tend to not be very good at any class they played anyway, which is why they switch. They think the class is holding them back so much and that’s the reason they aren’t doing good. Doesn’t really matter if you play fotm or not when you fall into that category, if you’re a grey parsers on 1 class odds are you won’t be any good at the form.

1 Like
87

I think the reason you are getting so much backlash is because a lot of people who play classes that can only do damage like to have at least 1 spec which feels competitive. Mages just don’t have a spec that FEELS good to play WELL right now. Where so many long time mages are used to having a really good spec output wise.

Historically you would change specs a few times over an expansion as some scaled well, some started off strong with minimal gear and that feels much better than what mages have now. Mages having 3 different specs which more or less feel the same, with almost the same output feels bad.

2 Likes
88

He’s getting so much backlash because he’s been trolling for years, has a tenuous grasp of any current tier, and tries to weakly summarize(or disprove the existence of) Mages’ relative strengths, weaknesses, and various issues using questionable metrics(75th percentile overall aggregates, oof.) When called out on inconsistencies he falls back on insults, changes the subject, insults your logs, or just starts rambling about Beast Mastery.

He’ll cry for BM buffs when BM is 5-7% below the Median in Uldir and has scaling issues, and in the very same tier, mock Mages for asking for Fire buffs early-Uldir and tell them their scaling issues are “L2P issues.”

He’ll mock you for saying that a spec is nonviable for Fetid due to not meeting a specific DPS check, exclaim that all specs are viable for all content, and moments later complain his spec is dead because his purple parse is lower than a grey parse from one of the strongest specs in a tier.

There’s a good point somewhere buried under all the trolling and confirmation bias. He’s right that Mage isn’t nonviable, the class isn’t dead, and being hyperbolic is useless feedback.

9 Likes
89

Moon cannot even grasp the significant benefits of being a completely mobile dps spec is when it comes to progression… literally argued about it even when Method was running 1-2 in the world first race.

In short, you’re wasting your time as Tempest said.

1 Like
90

1 2 0 0
2 dps 0
0 dps 2
0 0 2 1

91

Well, I gave it a shot but I think everyone else was correct - you really are trolling at this point. Go to warcraftlogs -> battle for dazaralor -> statistics -> mythic -> 95th percentile -> Champion of the light -> DPS. Please, tell me how the 22% is wrong. In fact, we are 37% behind destro on that fight and 22% behind shadow. (Shadow does 38,134 dps while arcane does 31,259 for a difference of 6,875. 6,875/31,259 = 22 %)

You’ve at least made the mage forums interesting for a few days, so there’s that at least, but when you willingly and knowingly dispute an easily provable fact it becomes very clear that you’re not actually interested in a discussion, merely arguing for arguing sake.

Best of luck to you.

2 Likes
92

Yup, once again compare Spriests on a multi target fight…GJ!! You as a mage should expect to keep up with dot classes on a dot fight.

Also I bet none of you are solid 95th parsers but yeah let’s use that as our example. Heck 75th is a high stretch for most of you. But I guess we don’t live realistically, we prefer to grasp at straws.

Says the guy who never posts anything constructive or with any data. Mobility mean nothing in pve. Once again link me the logs of these high mobility fights where BM tops meters. You keep bringing up method as if it maters, Gingi changes classes on a few bosses, how many people changes over to BM on these bosses?? Meeres was also MM not BM.

BM was not 4-7% behind in Uldir it was over 20% behind, we got huge buffs going into 8.1.5 for a reason, let’s see if mages get a buff going into 8.2. I’m willing to bet they don’t.

93

I’m not sure spamming WCL data and aggregates without much context or nuance is constructive, and let’s not pretend like the rest of the comments are either. All-bosses DPS is useless in a vacuum, and overall DPS even on a selected fight is often misleading.

Not to mention this forum isn’t even the place for constructive feedback in the first place, this is 50% a containment forum for complaints and 50% a discussion forum.

I don’t really condone paying much attention to the overall aggregate, but since you’re quoted saying:

By your standards BM was just fine in Uldir.
5% from the median in Mythic 8.1 Uldir on WCL
2% from the median in Heroic 8.1 Uldir on WCL

4 Likes
94

When virtually every fight is a multi-target fight these days, I think specs that are supposedly balanced around single target damage get a right to complain.

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95

What’s funny is I compared mages on all fights laying out just the facts and no interpretation of any kind. I didn’t cherry pick the Champion fight and try to use it as some sort of “evidence” that mages are horrible and can’t compete at all and yet he said, “There is no actual 22% difference in any of the real data.”

He obviously just wants to argue.

1 Like
96

I tried to warn you :smiley:

2 Likes
98

I never felt that my DPS is “trash” in BFA.

I can pretty much do anything I want. I have a strong cleave for M+

I have PvP tallents slow working on World Quest bosses (I think it’s a bug, but shhhhhh)

Sure, I’m not toping any metters but I have fun playing and my damage is quite good.

Don’t forget :slight_smile:

  • I can solo the whole reaping pop with some preparation
  • I have double IB to mitigate most of boss mecanics
  • I have a invisibility
  • I have Lust

I thing people don’t take these points into account enough

2 Likes
99

Blizz: We’d rather you didn’t play a mage…

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100

if you look at any class forum almost all of them state that their class is the worst. Unless youre pushing world first, dont worry about dps rankings.

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101

Please look at the Raid logs.

Ty.

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102

Goodness, talk about lowered expectations.

Double IB? Cause other classes aren’t able to soak?

Invis? Rogues and Druids say hi.

Lust? You don’t need a mage for lust.

The biggest and most important thing brought by mages right now is the Int buff, a button you press once an hour and forget about . . . thrilling.

Are they turning mages into a support class?

2 Likes
103

Fire mage is awesome in PvP. The only thing I think it needs tweaking on his how long your ignite dot stacks for. It’s to hard getting your dot up to a good burn per sec without it falling off completely in 5 seconds because u couldn’t lineup 3 procs simultaneously .

Arcane just needs to get revamped 1 - 2 spells for most encounters is a joke.

And frost mage is probabaly the most fun out of any spec. But I don’t like the concept of all your damage basically coming from a glacial spike nuke that hits 200k as long as ur flurry proc hits befor