I wouldn’t really credit to him for being a troll, more like severely misinformed. The only reason Arcane even pops up on radar for the overall logs is legit because of 2 mechanics they can cheese the living hell out of that skews it so bad. Take that away and it’s far below the lowest dps class.
IDK why people act so blind…there performance is literally public information.
Go to logs click on BOD, click on statistics, click on aggregate as per second amounts. Mage are not far behind. None of them are.
1200 dps behind is no bad…the sky is not falling, mages are fine.
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i mean you can go to wow-dps and see the logs for each mythic bfd fight. its definitely not a great raid for arcane but ‘far below last dps’? absolutely not. maybe on rastakhan and opulence
GPyro is not affected by RoP.
Mages just suck at pve
I feel the same playing my boomkin. I dont even optimize my streaking stars rotation and can compete with my mage.
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If you think being by far the worst caster at the moment is fine, I don’t know what to say to you.
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Your 1200 dps behind…if you expect better balancing than that I don’t know what to tell you.
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There’s a big difference between being competitive and being the best (or trash). There’s a lot of misconceptions being preached in this thread so I thought I’d throw some actual statistics out there. I’m going to list each boss with the top four dps and how far behind mages are from being the best for each boss. For example, Destro is 37% higher at the 95 percentile on mythic which will be written as Destro (37%). I’m also going to list where the top performing mage spec ranks out of all 24 dps specs.
Champion of the Light 7/24 (Arcane)
Destro (37%)
Affliction (29%)
Shadow (22%)
Balance (11%)
Jadefire Masters 7/24 (Frost)
Destro (13%)
Balance (6%)
Outlaw (6%)
Shadow (5%)
Grong 10/24 (Arcane)
Shadow (15%)
Balance (9%)
Elemental (8%)
Destro (5%)
Opulence 13/24 (Frost)
Unholy (16%)
Ret (14%)
Elemental (11%)
Havoc (10%)
Conclave 3/24 (Arcane)
Shadow (13%)
Destro (5%)
Rastakhan 19/24 (Fire)
Shadow (17%)
Affliction (16%)
Balance (11%)
Outlaw (10%)
Mekkatorque 3/24 (Arcane)
Elemental (8%)
Affliction (1%)
Stormwall Blockade 11/24 (Arcane)
Shadow (19%)
Enhance (8%)
Elemental (6%)
Havoc (4%)
Jaina 13/24 (Frost)
Shadow (14%)
Destro (13%)
Elemental (10%)
Outlaw (8%)
So summarizing what I believe to be some of the most important figures. Mages are above average dps on 5/9 fights. They are very good on Conclave and Mekkatorque and fare the worst on Rastakhan. Arcane is the top mage spec on 5/9 fights, frost on 3/9, and fire on only one.
I find it hard to believe that mage would be considered “trash” when looking at the numbers objectively. However, Moonuredps’s assertion that mages are only “1200 dps behind” is patently false as well.
Mages are perfectly viable and can successfully clear all available content. They’re never the best choice but do a perfectly fine job and are rarely a detriment to the raid. They also bring some utility in slows and spell steals.
The real issue is not with mage dps but the extreme outliers on several boss fights that typically favor multi-dot classes as has been discussed here and other threads in great depth. Thankfully, the fight where mages are outclassed the most also happens to be the very first and easiest fight. Despite what many would argue, most guilds do not have a stable of warlocks and spriests they can draw from to replace a mage who is falling behind in comparison to those extremely favored classes. Mages are not going to be replaced en masse (Sunwell’d!) as many erroneously argue which can be proven by the sheer number of parses from mages.
Could mages use some love? If you’re comparing to a few overpowered specs, yes. Compared to the vast majority of dps classes in the game, mages are competitive and solid if not always spectacular.
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My number of 1200 was from the overall place of tbem
My data is not wrong. Youre just looking at the 1200 and then looking up each specific fight and seeing that 1200 is wrong in the sense of each specific encounter.
If you go to logs and just do statistics the 1200 stems from everyone’s performance of the raid as a whole and not any 1 fight. It’s an average on how each class is performing.
Obviously if you take fights where a spec isn’t good at it, it will obviously be farther away.
My data isn’t false it’s the big picture. You’re painting 9 pictures.
MM is overall the 8th top dps spec in BOD.
MM overall dps for all 9 fights is 24,670 dps.
The lowest mage spec is fire. Fire mages dps overall for all of BOD is 23,440 dps.
The lowest spec for mages is 1230 dps behind the 8th top dps spec…OVERALL.
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You can make statistics say whatever you want but I’d argue that looking at the data on a case-by-case basis is a much more accurate way of looking at it. If mages had one fight that favored them by 100% but then were 25% below on every other fight, would you say that is acceptable performance or design? Average data isn’t really helpful when trying to analyze how the class is actually doing.
Probably; remember Halfus? People were claiming mages were fine because fire was so stupidly OP on that fight that it brought our average DPS for that tier to mid range. Never mind that on literally every other fight, mages were rock bottom.
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I’d say its hard to use that data, as fights are subjective to some specs that just shine on that type.
To me the data that matters is how they are overall in the whole tier.
Also using the data for shadow and Affliction is a bit out of teach since this is their tier to shine. So obviously you will be much further behind tbem.
Data should exclude those outliers.
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Why should the data exclude those outliers? That’s real-world performance. They’re actually doing that much better.
I could not disagree more that the average number is somehow more important than looking deeper. Too much nuance and detail is lost by doing so.
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You’re wasting your time arguing with this individual; it’s why I gave up and moved on. BM is the worst thing in the world, mages are fine, one instance of skewed data is > all, done. You’ll get that response every time.
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No one said BM was the worst in the world???
If we look at per boss data than EVERYONE except the people this tier caters to needs a buff…
Go look at each boss and just buff the bottom 5 for every fight.
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Merely taking the bottom five and buffing them would ignore the fundamental problem as to why they are under performing. Is it just a numbers tweak? Is it due to raid mechanics? Perhaps a certain class brings added utility that doesn’t show in damage meters?
You’ve taken a position where your eagle-eye view of average data is obscuring what’s really happening. These are the kinds of things we’re asking Blizzard to analyze and understand as they design future raid encounters.
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That’s just nonsensical.
Specs will be better at certain fights over others, that’s just how games work.
Every spec is different. Your eagle eye view is saying we should all be equal at everything and that’s not how this game works, and prolly all MMOs.
Now you could argue they shouldn’t of made this many encounters that favor dot classes so heavily but that’s what they did.
Why would you think you would compete on fights that aren’t designed for you to be top tier on?? Should every class that’s not a multi dotting classes be crying too? On execute fights, should all of us just go on strike because we’re going to lose to execute classes on the logs???
Heck I’m a BM hunter and my niche is mobilty yet BM tops no fights with the highest mobility criteria.
And your suggesting we should all be equal? Being 5% behind the average isn’t really that bad of balancing. I’m sorry but you are infact 1200 dps behind on the WHOLE tier. Should every class point out how far behind they are in dps to Spriests and affliction on fights that make them shine?
You’re just crying at this point.
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The irony is not lost on me…
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Never, at any point, did I suggest that all classes should be equal on all fights. I recognize the need for strengths and weaknesses and I’m okay with that. Let me pose a question to you:
Let’s say class A does 5 dps every fight for the entire raid of 10 fights. Average: 5 dps.
Class B does 9 dps on five fights and 1 dps on five fights. Average: 5 dps.
Class C does 41 dps on one fight and 1 dps on nine fights. Average: 5 dps.
Are you honestly telling me that class C should not be upset even though their average dps is the exact same? What about Class B - should they be happy?
Your obsession with the average damage is really very odd.
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