All this “RDF should be available, but exclude X” takes are honestly weird.
Can you give a singular valid reason why something should be excluded ?
I mean what would be the problem with RDF´ing a H+ ?
If it normally works well, people will use RDF for H+, so there is no problem.
If it normally leads to a wipefest or other problems, people will not use RDF for H+, so there is no problem.
Its logic on the level of not releasing TOC with hardmode, because that would include the risk of people failing…
Because you want to be able to build your own comps with heroic +, especially if any players are under geared. Especially considering some of the h+ are quite unforgiving depending on comp and gear levels .
You imagine random queueing into UP+ with 3 minimal geared melee DPS ? Yeah, no thanks . I’d drop before we started as a healer . You imagine queueing into HoS+ with a minimal geared healer or tank, or both ? It’s important to allow players to build their own comps, including gear scores and class makeup - for content that can actually be difficult depending on factors. The same CANNOT be said for mindless heroic spams .
Because, allowing a situation where players decide to stop using a system out of frustration - turns into ‘nerf the content so that I don’t waste my time with a queue and deserter debuff’.
My logic is flawed ? It’s either exclude H+ with RDF or add a built in item level requirement to queue for H+ which is ALREADY a major problem .
There are two different types of ‘optional’ there’s truely optional, where there is no significant detriment or benefit for choosing A over B or vice versa … then there’s ‘not really’ optional, where one option is significantly less efficient than the other. At that point, it’s not really optional in an MMO landscape.
Because Blizzard doesn’t care about player experience. They invest as little effort as possible to keep the user count up. That’s why they lied about bot bans and continue to tolerate the practice as well as the resulting RMT. Keeps their user count high.
-You still can build your own comp, especially if you are a healer, a role that can basically outheal any content there is outside of algalon oneshots with ease and produces massive overheal anywhere, but still is afraid of healing low geared people…
-If your fear of encountering super specific worst case scenarious would be widespread, then there would be a community that does not use the system and builds there own group, and one that does not care and uses it.
I would still prefer having RDF for everything. I have a protpally at bisgear, i love just spamming random dungeons as a timesink. there is no group composition that would be impossible to carry.
i guess you’re new here then, because RDF was introduced with over 6 months left in the wrath expansion, the sub count actually started to dip before RDF was introduced and once it did it leveled out.
while i’m sure a small minority of people quit because of RDF, the majority of players kept playing well into the Cataclysm expansion until the sub count started to drop further.
How do you suggest you build your own comp for RDF, build then queue ? Kind of antithetical to the point here bud.
Overhealing doesn’t mean sweet diddly when you have 3 low geared DPS eating permafrost. Use your brain. 90% of my Paladin overhealing is from holy light splash, or beacon . Not from laying into someone .
You remember that RDF came with gold and badge incentives right ? “Optional” is not truly optional, when option B has more reward than option A. It’s not that hard to understand, and you want even more opportunity for toxicity. Booting randoms from an RDF h+ for being undergeared.
(Yes I’m aware that was an issue with heroic RDF, but it won’t be this time, because reg heroics are definitively face roll, this isn’t 2008) .
And we aren’t talking solely about players in ulduar gear . We are talking about fresh 80s aswell.
I wouldn’t mind if they excluded h+ from rdf. But I also would like it to be included. If I joined an H+ undergeared group we’d all know if the run was doable in 10 or 15 minutes. We’d break up then with very little loss of time. It’s just not a big deal to me.
Except that it almost never happens. Players vastly overstate the gear score needed to complete the dungeons, whether it’s regular, heroic, or heroic +. Too many players want to make the dungeon easy by purposely over gearing for it. I find playing like that to be boring. I’ve done dozens of dungeons with undergeared groups and we completed the dungeon just fine. A bit of a struggle and a little slower but still we completed the dungeon and the increased challenge made the run more fun. But if you want your easy speed runs manually form your groups or leave H+ our of rdf. I think it’s stupid to leave H+ out but it’s not important enough to me to really care.
That not be so bad if we got more of the retail lfg tool functionality.
Not all retail changes are bad lol. LFG is nice in retail. It did have an annoying feature I know see why it exists. it limits low levels view of lfg groups. I see its purpose now…it cuts seeing 500+ ads that don’t even apply to your level range lol.
Hell I will put on the flak jacket and say copy the AH UI too. I realize how great that is that every time I jsut cba to farm for an hour and I made some good money to be lazy.
It’s great that it’s been a decent experience for you . But that isn’t the case across the board. It doesn’t happen that often now, because we don’t have RDF, so you can build a comp that can offset low gear, and the grouping practices havent shifted toward a random queue based mentality
Utgarde pinnacle is only one example of a heroic + that you would not want to do with 3 undergeared melee DPS . To be honest, I wouldnt want to heal a heroic+ UP with 3 melee DPS regardless of gear, when I could instead build my comp more favourably . And while I admit that’s personal preference, it’s a shared sentiment. Again, “optional” isn’t “optional” in an MMO landscape, when one option provides better rewards - for the same difficulty of content. Unless we are suggesting that rolling the dice should be rewarded over thoughtful planning
You’ve never seen heroic + in classic with RDF so you can only speculate that it doesn’t happen . But there’s a vast amount of historical knowledge to support that it DOES happen.
Right and you just explained why when manually form your group offers an actual advantage over using a tool. So yes it’s very much optional and in the case of H+ there would be legitimate pros cons to manually forming vs letting a tool do it.
When there’s no value in pre forming a group then of course most people will choose RDF over manually forming. But for say H+ there would be reasons to pre form.
You greatly missed my point . “Optional” isn’t “optional” when one option provides better rewards - for the same level of difficulty . You are forgetting that RDF came with gold and emblems maybe ?
Are you suggesting that rolling the dice should yield better rewards than thoughful planning ?
It’s akin to the world buff meta, even though some players didn’t wanna do it, many that didn’t - did it anyway because it was rewarded with raid spots. An “optional” power boost that wasn’t necessary to clear the content. The term pigeon holed comes to mind . And even IF I’m wrong - Are you sure you want to split the heroic + playerbase, ONTOP of splitting the playerbase up between reg/+ ? Grouping is already an issue, a fix that causes further issues isn’t a fix. Heroic + just doesn’t NEED RDF , regular heroics do . (Keyword being need)
RDF does not prevent you from pre forming your group then queueing and getting the exact same rewards(which are really just a replacement for the daily quests)
And I specifically addressed H+ in an RDF type situation where the reward for pre forming your group actually matters. IE you can guarantee a cleaner run, something that is not a relevant consideration for most content. So in that situation the option to pre form vs just use the tool is a real discussion because there are actual legitimate pros cons.
I did an edit while you were responding - read this and consider it carefully.
" It’s akin to the world buff meta, even though some players didn’t wanna do it, many that didn’t - did it anyway because it was rewarded with raid spots. An “optional” power boost that wasn’t necessary to clear the content. The term pigeon holed comes to mind . And even IF I’m wrong - Are you sure you want to split the heroic + playerbase, ONTOP of splitting the playerbase up between reg/+ ? Grouping is already an issue, a fix that causes further issues isn’t a fix. Heroic + just doesn’t NEED RDF , regular heroics do . (Keyword being need). "
So what happens when you preform with 3 people and queue in with an undergeared DPS or healer or tank for that matter . Gonna kick them ? ( You may not, but others WILL)
It’s either exclude H+ with RDF or add a built in item level requirement to queue for H+ which is ALREADY a major problem .
