Why increase the gap between raiders and m+ers again?

[Snozay-area-52]

@Usholy-azgalor

Yeah I don’t like that either, I hate being forced into content I don’t want to do. Whether it’s being forced into dungeons as a raider or being forced into pvp as a pve’er or being forced into raiding as a M+er.

The game is always going to reward people who do both more.

It drives up play time

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Yes, because the game forces M raiders into M+. M+ just drops an order of magnitude or 2 more items than raid does. It is also the only realistic way to keep up on crests, unless you’re full 8/8M clearing every week from the start of the season (so unless you’re in Liquid or Echo, you’re in M+ to crest farm).

And it’s the ONLY way to get upgrades when extending.

[Graystone-tichondrius]

And I know it’s shocking for some but usually in MMO’s those who engage and succeed in more content usually have better gear.

These complaints all stem from the insanity of the Mythic Plus PuG world. I see it in my own guild where some members no life M+ the first week just to make sure they have a decent score from the start to be able to get into PuG’s.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Yes, because the game forces M raiders into M+. M+ just drops an order of magnitude or 2 more items than raid does. It is also the only realistic way to keep up on crests, unless you’re full 8/8M clearing every week from the start of the season (so unless you’re in Liquid or Echo, you’re in M+ to crest farm).

Move aspect crests to the last half of heroic.

Redesign the raid vault to not punish extending (Idk how to do this exactly).

Add m track loot to the first 14+ of each dungeon you do each week, starting from x.75 patch.

I think all 3 of these changes coming in at once would do wonders for all sides, without heavily incentivising one to engage in something they don’t enjoy.

[Callypigian-proudmoore]

@Usholy-azgalor

My account is on the EU server so that’s why I’m posting on a level 11, but that’s besides the point.

My girlfriend’s from Canada. She’s a model. You probably don’t know her.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Callypigian-proudmoore

My girlfriend’s from Canada.

Insert Avenue Q meme here.

[Usholy-azgalor]

I think it drives it down personally, it’s why I barely played in shadowlands, if we had the DF gearing and upgrade system back then I would’ve played it so much more.

[Padgarre-lightbringer (Padgarre)]

So you guys would be okay with this:

M+ will close the ilevel gap one month in to reward higher ilevel from higher key level.

[Redhotbunny-whisperwind]

Because Ion wants raid or die for WoW.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Graystone-tichondrius

These complaints all stem from the insanity of the Mythic Plus PuG world.

If players choose to pug, that’s their choice. But they should accept all the consequences thereof.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Usholy-azgalor

I think it drives it down personally

Most raid guilds I have been in have a 4 or 8 minimum required keys above x level at the start of every tier.

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Hpellipsis-whisperwind

Redesign the raid vault to not punish extending (Idk how to do this exactly).

Been posting how to do this since 2021:
The Great Vault is insurance. It was created to offer M+ players choices so it wasn’t just a roll of the dice on that ONE item in their weekly chest.
Raiding’s Great Vault needs to be similar insurance, but that requires a different approach.
You kill bosses, you get “Vault Points”. You pay Vault Points to unlock boxes in the Great Vault. (Again, this is for RAIDING ONLY.) And the boxes have exponentially increasing unlock prices, so you get a lot more out of unlocking 1 or 2 boxes per week for 10 weeks than spending the same points to unlock 3 (or even 4, if that’s a thing) in 1 week.
The point of this is that, while you’re extending, you spend those Great Vault points you’ve been accumulating all tier, to keep the loot flow coming in when you’re on extend and aren’t getting points anymore.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Padgarre-lightbringer

So you guys would be okay with this:

M+ will close the ilevel gap one month in to reward higher ilevel from higher key level.

One month is too soon, but fundamentally I don’t have an issue with letting m+ reward m track loot on a weekly lockout at some point in each season.

[Usholy-azgalor]

Bro, honestly I just want to see it the way we have it currently, mythic raiding still gives you a slight advantage, but it’s not a whole tier worth of ilvls.

[Padgarre-lightbringer (Padgarre)]

But if you had to wait 1/2 months in to reach that ilevel you wouldn’t mind? So by the end you could reach their exact ilevel on average and not be below.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

@Brewa-hyjal

Been posting how to do this since 2021:

And were something like this implemented, would you have any objections towards the other two changes I posted in the same reply?

[Okaeri-area-52]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

If players choose to pug, that’s their choice. But they should accept all the consequences thereof.

If you choose to extend raids and not re-clear, that’s you’re choice and you should accept the consequences thereof.

[Brewa-hyjal]

Before anything else is done to increase M+ rewards, I want M+ restored to the difficulty it should have, so that M+ players are earning their gear in the first place.

I’ve long maintained that adding a new affix with every keystone level would be an easy start.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Okaeri-area-52

If you choose to extend raids and not re-clear, that’s you’re choice and you should accept the consequences thereof

Always love when people who don’t even play the game make terrible suggestions because of how mad they are.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Even in that case, M+ is only 1 order of magnitude more items and crests, not 2.