Why I'm quitting BGs as an Alliance player

[Yarrow]

“Horde players are all mythic raiders and high ranked PVPer’s with a huge gear advantage despite the scaling the softens it, and operate at a pinnacle level, fitting of their progress in the game. Unless they’re mercs, in which case they’re all trolls or terrible players in heirlooms and greens. The mercenary system divides players as such. Also, the conquest lost in Horde losses doesn’t go to Alliance it is just deleted.”

Typical. You can’t argue with what we’re actually saying, so you set up a straw man instead.

But it was okay in wod where gear mattered far more.

Also a straw man. No one is saying that.

[Dangerjosh-wyrmrest-accord (Dangerjosh)]

Literally not the point, but you know that. It’s not as cute calling me kid when you’re only doing it because I called you kid in that thread. Be original.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

I don’t know why that’s been booming so much lately. It was a “once in a while” thing years ago but now, it’s like the new cool.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Edit: kid

[Bazongas-zuljin]

It’d be a straw man if it wasn’t a summary of your posts. Which it is, that’s how contradictory your excuses are. Calling what I said a “straw man” is a “straw man” LOL

[Jugajr-emerald-dream (Jugajr)]

Again 1v2 ing for someone’s cp cap was way more common that expansion for a reason. Anyway off to work now.

[Ragarèn-emerald-dream (Ragarèn)]

I don’t know why that’s been booming so much lately. It was a “once in a while” thing years ago but now, it’s like the new cool.

So is accusing players of setting up a straw man, or using an ad hominem

Again 1v2 ing for someone’s cp cap was way more common that expansion for a reason

I mean back then I could 1v3/1v4, the skill ceiling was definitely higher back then. The CP capping has always been a thing since cata, does not mean it was a result of gear, good players would always beat bad because the differences were greater than now.

[Micel-stormrage]

Rated is the ones that should not be getting rewards for a loss. That’s the competitive level.

For normals, its because you want people to make progress even when they lose. Otherwise you end up with what we are talking about here, a growing imbalance between the winners and losers.

So the more you lose, the harder it gets to win in the future. That is bad design in a persistent game.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

Accusing someone is one thing, because it’s evident. If someone asks you a question about a game-related situation and you reply with something off-topic that has absolutely nothing to do with answering you or making cracks about your character’s achievements/gear, there really is no hiding.

[Ragarèn-emerald-dream (Ragarèn)]

Your characters achievements/gear is game related and therefore related to the topic, same with skill levels. Also Jugaa used a comparison between, WOD’s gearing system and current gearing, it is related.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

They are “game-related” but using them to attack a person rather than their argument is, i’m afraid, ad hominem, which is common. My point was that things like that have become much more frequent lately.

[Ragarèn-emerald-dream (Ragarèn)]

They haven’t though, most of the time I’ve seen someone complain and get responses related to their play style. Arena, rbgs, pvp achievements are used to measure pvp experience, too often players without any real experience demand changes, or complain without knowing the real issue.

For instance complaining on rets in cata was still a thing, the issue wasn’t rets it was the player lacking the skills to literally walk behind a pillar as the ret popped wings.

(I’ll be back in 2-3 hours, the gym calls and my heart is pumping after ingesting three scoops. )

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

Maybe from your perspective and time you’ve read. I can honestly say I have seen an increase, myself. It’s not like it’s some huge frontpage news, just an observation.

Then again, people who love using ad hominem try to justify it any way they can. “This guy didn’t meet my personal standards.” It’s kind of funny albeit a little cringeworthy.

[Bazongas-zuljin]

I love when threads derail into people crying foul for “ad hominem” “straw men”, and other accusations of logical fallacies.

Let’s add some other logical fallacies to the mix as they are rampant in these discussions:

“confirmation bias”
“false dilemma”
“hasty generalization”
“appeal to ignorance”
“appeal to hypocrisy”

Discuss among yourselves.

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

They’re calling a spade a “spade” because it’s the smart thing to do. Letting someone continue their fallacy is just plain silly.

[Bazongas-zuljin]

They’re calling a spade a “spade” because it’s the smart thing to do. Letting someone continue their fallacy is just plain silly.

But when they’re arguing a logical fallacy using another logical fallacy, isn’t that just as silly? Maybe even more silly?

[Greyhide-khadgar (Greyhide)]

If that’s really the case. The point I was making was that I’m seeing people try pulling fallacies out of their sleeve more often lately. I guess it’s a lot easier to do than just admit you’re wrong. I’m not saying you did this. I saw someone mention it and commented on it.

[Muffindiver-dentarg (Muffindiver)]

Nah azerite and stats matter more than ilvl.

This. People keep mistaking ilvl / gear with AP and Azerite Traits.

[Gdtroll-illidan (Gdtroll)]

I’m not sure I understand the whole “mercs throwing Alliance games” allegation/excuse, because Horde mercs are rarely calling the shots or in leadership positions to begin with during an Ally bg.

For example, when I merc I mostly just follow the Alliance herd around, or respond to incs/calls for help. I’ve never been in a “leadership” position in an Alliance bg, 99% of the time one of the Ally players “takes charge” in the chat and the Alliance herd simply goes along with whatever his strat is.

I’m just not seeing this “mercs and their Horde strats causing Alliance to lose” Horde mercs are just along for the ride from what I see, it’s the Alliance players who decide upon what strat will be used that match (usually decided during the first 2 minutes in the starting cave).

[Bazongas-zuljin]

If that’s really the case. The point I was making was that I’m seeing people try pulling fallacies out of their sleeve more often lately. I guess it’s a lot easier to do than just admit you’re wrong. I’m not saying you did this. I saw someone mention it and commented on it.

And most of the complaint threads I see these days are due to a false dilemma (Horde are better geared/always win/troll as mercs) then “confirmed” by confirmation bias (I lost a couple in a row this week, saw a bad merc last week). It’s led to a “certain people” making one broad generalization in one thread, and a second (but conflicting) broad generalization in another thread.

Both these generalizations can not be true as widespread problems as they conflict with one another.

If one is to argue the Horde are all “super geared” and “good”, it stands to reason by a random data sample then the mercs would also tend to be “super geared” and “good” at a similar percentage. It is the same player group after all. This of course assumes there is no global cross-realm and cross game conspiracy participated in by the entirety of the Horde to split their efforts. I believe it is unreasonable to assume or argue this.

It’s just using confirmation bias to make an excuse, and cherry picking the “data” where it suits them.

Arguments countering this are met with appeals to hypocrisy (eg: you’re a mythic raider so how dare you) or falsely claiming Ad Hominem, which now that I realize it, a false cry of Ad Hominem is actually an Appeal to Pity (look at them picking on me, they must be wrong).

If you consider it ad hominem to point this out, I’m not sure what to tell you. Critique of logical method is a legit form of analysis in debate. I’ve put a considerable deal of thought and some light research into this, hope you enjoyed.