Why I think Race-Class combinations ARE important, and removing restrictions could be harmful

[Sinelius-proudmoore]

Too long to read…just gonna say there’s no reason to restrict races anymore to certain classes. This is the best move they can make.

[Bloodhawke-shandris]

@Beaupeep-draka

Draenei abhor what happened to the Eredar. However, if Blizzard came up with a compelling narrative reason to allow them to make up with the Eredar and/or allow the Draenei to become Warlocks, I’d be behind that 100%.

How about this …
With Kil’jaeden dead the Man’ari that were following out of fear reconnect with their Draenei relatives. I’m pretty sure Velen would give them a chance considering what happened with his son.

[Tovi-moon-guard (Tovi)]

@Rarumas-whisperwind

Baine on the other hand belongs in the Alliance.

Right, Baine does. Not the rest of us.

[Dremall-scarlet-crusade (Dremall)]

@Maldazzar-medivh

WoW is more like a giant community playing the same campaign. Just because some people don’t take it seriously, doesn’t mean we should just throw everything out the window. It’s ultimately Blizzard’s decision, of course. I’m simply advocating my stance on the subject, which is that eliminating ANY Race/Class restrictions (which they’re talking about doing) will be actively harmful to the game.

I agree that it is the same campaign. However, a truly skilled DM, can make even the most outlandish concept work. Tauren getting druids at launch, Alliance getting shamans, and Horde getting paladins during tbc. Night Elf mages, Tauren Paladins, Gnome priests, and yet here we are.

Just as certain races gravitate towards certain classes, not all Dwarves are warriors wielding battle axes. That’s stereotyping, and can be unappealing. Letting people break the mold can be as fun, but how they explain it needs to matter.

Also the PC isn’t a representation of actual characters in the world. While there might be a million and one of a certain race class combo being played, doesn’t mean that reflects to in lore characters, there might be one or a handful of certain combinations in lore.

It really ends up being about player freedom of expression. More options and customization can be a good thing, instead of stifling creativity. Give me any race class combo and it is simple enough to come up with a halfway plausible story to justify it.

Seriously all things aside (the ship sailed with Light Forged Death Knights) just saying.

[Fiznazzle-korialstrasz (Fiznazzle)]

Restrictions arent a bad thing. If they were, wow wouldnt have made it this far. Sure, blizz tried to restrict some things and it almost failed the game.

I just want them to make stories given the changes. They better not give undead druids and act like it makes any sense with just saying elune said it’s ok now. It’d need to be more elaborate.

[Dremall-scarlet-crusade (Dremall)]

@Fiznazzle-korialstrasz

I just want them to make stories given the changes. They better not give undead druids and act like it makes any sense with just saying elune said it’s ok now. It’d need to be more elaborate.

This part I agree on whole heartedly. There needs to be a few quests to introduce it at the very least.

[Talonel-frostmourne]

Ok but I am grateful they are opening up class race restrictions!

[Vincent-nathrezim]

I read all of OP’s post and there are some points there that are pretty good.

BUT I still feel that there’s one argument that trumps all of it.

Meet Bob

Bob is a human. He is friends with Sarah, a dwarf Shaman.

Bob and Sarah have been friends for a very long time, and Bob learned all about shamanism from Sarah. He liked what he heard and went on to learn more about it from his Dranei friends. who were also Shamans.

Bob, after years of study and dedication learned how to become a shaman. He genuinely worships and respects the elementals and spirits. Bob doesn’t know much about the holy light, and never went to church. He likes being a shaman and feels this is important to him.

Now: Explain to me why you want to ruin Bob’s life by forcing him to be a different profession he doesn’t want to be.

[Adaia-moon-guard]

This is Warcraft and not DnD. There is a difference and there should be.

[Melnet-lightbringer]

@Maldazzar-medivh

Like my previous analogy, that still affects EVERYONE’S immersion.

What you’re advocating is that, because SOME people don’t care about the story, they should be able to do whatever they want, what it’s still affecting the world others WANT to feel immersed in.

You act as though your “immersion” is the only possible experience than anyone can have, and you want to force that on everyone, even though immersion is a personal emotional experience.

It’s not one or the other. If everybody who experiences immersion differently from you needs to be hidden from you in order not to displace your own narrow personal experience that you actually share only with a tiny part of the playerbase, then you’re playing the wrong game.

[Purecynicism-frostwolf (Purecynicism)]

@Maizou-proudmoore

The only real issue is when they canonize these combinations with named, tangible characters.

Which isn’t an “issue” either because the same logic you just applied to the player’s character as one of the “protagonists” within the story applies to these named characters in either “protagonist” or “supporting character” roles: Those types of characters by definition subvert the “universal order” of things within the narrative to create the desired “drama”.

@Maizou-proudmoore

For instance, they canonized a Night Elf Paladin.

Actually they canonized two in that story arc and the second one has far more serious ramifications than the female one.

@Maizou-proudmoore

Prior to that, people considered NE Paladins lore-breaking as they don’t worship the Light.

Problem there: It’s “people” (on the consumer side) that “considered” this to be true while outright ignoring that literal “worship of the Light” is actually not a requirement for the usage of Light based magic:

• The “original” TBC Blood Knights very clearly demonstrated that usage of Light based magic can be achieved via will / force without any “worshipping”. I’m still very displeased at how Blizzard decided to change them into yet another “Paladin order” instead of keeping them at least “lore wise” more separate like the Sunwalkers.
• The aforementioned Sunwalkers do not worship “the (holy) Light” either yet manifest Light based paladin magic nonetheless.

@Maizou-proudmoore

When they canonize things with named NPCs, it becomes a problem if they don’t explain it.

In that case there’s no problem with the named NPC you referenced but there certainly could be one with the other one:
Nerus Moonfang: As someone who was trapped in spirit form within a pendant ever since the War of the Ancients he either became a proficient Light magic wielding (retribution) paladin instantaneously upon his emergence from the pendant or he’s actually the first ever Light magic wielding (retribution) Night Elf paladin that learned his skills several thousand years before humans and dwarfs of “Light worshipping” type managed to access Light based paladin magics and Nerus did so as part of the normal Night Elf society.

While the “instant” option would indeed pose a bit of a “problem” in terms of unsatisfactory narrative neither option is truly a problem that requires further explaination because his presence is a fact. So having …

@Maizou-proudmoore

Like, if they canonized a mechagnome demon hunter, but gave no backstory? That’s a problem.

… such an explaination is just more desirable but not a true necessity.

[Talonel-frostmourne]

@Adaia-moon-guard

and there should be

That’s not up to you to make that call, and besides the opposite of what you’re wanting is already coming…

[Greatbrae-dalaran]

@Lilus-archimonde

Rangari

Are hunters…

@Anïme-illidan

They wrote the lore, they can do whatever they want.

Please study writing. A good writer never contradicts their universes rules.

@Cur-proudmoore

Your paladin doesn’t look like this because Blizzard decided to please the player base rather than stay true to the lore. You are not standing on firm ground here.

Dreanei lore was obscure enough to make dreanei work as they do now. And had been built better after release.

@Orctang-area-52

Giving all races all classes will be beneficial for the game!

Disagreed.

@Nicodemùs-stormrage

I think it makes the game better and more immersive, not less.

Tell that to all the people that left after the void elf fiasco. In fact it helped WoW’s competition then hampered it.

@Adaia-moon-guard

Fel

Fel actually works well with void, in fact most warlock spells is either a mix of them or either school.

@Puré-area-52

Which class skins would be a nice addition with already established lore.

Class skins is not an excuse for class combos. Mostly due to people will clamor to blizz making it optional fir even races not supportive if the original skin.

Also it would be silly if a fel or void paladin to walk in the paladin order hall for example (not like they even exist in lore, cause they don’t)

@Tinthiel-emerald-dream

will the joke blue alliance and red alliance become real.

Scary thought…

@Cur-proudmoore

I will pound this one every time. From about 10,000 years ago until about 20 years ago canonically, only male night elves were druids. Only females were Elune devotee priests and warrior caste. About 6 years later, after 10,000 years of strict law that literally split their society apart, they decided mages are no longer a problem.

Archeology would like a word with you…

@Maldazzar-medivh

Orc Priests feel like another very poor fit. Orcs have ZERO connection to “the Light”

This is a class combo I can actually see work since shadow priests is a thing and shadiwmoon orcs is shadow priests.

@Sqúish-zuljin

The ‘Well ac-chewally the lore is important’ crowd is long in the minority.

0 evidence in these claims. Ppl needs to stop playing these cards every time they disagree with someone and make a real arguement.

@Taethelan-malganis

It seems delving more into the light is the natural progression for the orcs now.

Priests =/= light worship. Shadow priests exists for a reason

@Bloodhawke-shandris

With Kil’jaeden dead the Man’ari that were following out of fear reconnect

The eredar is demons. They are fighting each other atm for dominance because that is what demons do.

@Maldazzar-medivh

However, I personally feel the idea

Op you did a splendid job throughout this thread.

Do not listen to the people that says “lore is bad so let’s make it worse!” crowd. Stick to your guns and keep your philosophy.

My only comment to you though is that I doubt the dreanei would accept eredar back into their ranks so easily even if velen says yes (and I doubt Velen would be eager too btw) and the army of the light would most certainly open war with them right away if the eradar tried to co.e to azeroth. If eredar is to be playable they would most likely be horde.

[Nicodemùs-stormrage]

@Greatbrae-dalaran

Tell that to all the people that left after the void elf fiasco. In fact it helped WoW’s competition then hampered it.

LOL! Seriously? You’re trying to claim that some significant number of players quit the game over Void Elf cosmetics? And that FFXIV’s boom was due to that? Really? Sorry but that’s just ridiculous IMO.

I still see all the same faces that were opposed to Void Elves getting typical skin/hair colors still on the forums posting in elf topics today… including you. So if you, and other passionate opponents of Void Elves getting High Elf customization, didn’t quit, then why would players who don’t care enough to post, or even visit the forums at all, leave because of that?

Sorry, but I ain’t buying what you’re selling with that comment, especially not without some data to prove that even a single person stopped playing WoW specifically because Void Elves got blonde hair. I can only imagine how many you’ll think will “quit” when Void Elves get Paladins/Druids/Demon Hunters/Shaman /eyeroll.

[Virus-nagrand (Virus)]

In a game where you can be an anthropomorphized bipedal cow riding a magic rooster as a mount, why should we bother with any restrictions? This game has been looking at ridiculous in the rearview mirror for a loooong time now.

[Terranox-stonemaul (Terranox)]

@Maizou-proudmoore

Like, if they canonized a mechagnome demon hunter, but gave no backstory? That’s a problem. But a mechagnome demon hunter player, that the player can create a backstory for, and those who see them can create one of their own in their head? That encourages imagination.

I would say the mechagnomes are clever enough to implement a demon magical entrapment device into there cyborg body enhanced with arcane runes, there arcane runes can be electrical xD.

There demon form can by like a cyborg goblin sort of thing. Or like a robo demon, something like the robot devil from futurama.

After something thinking maybe like a Demon Enchanted Autolocking Device. Or D.E.A.D. and failed devices lead to dead mechagnomes…

[Indaria-wyrmrest-accord]

@Greatbrae-dalaran

Tell that to all the people that left after the void elf fiasco. In fact it helped WoW’s competition then hampered it.

I can’t type… I’m laughing too hard. Imagine the type of player who would have /ragequit the game over Void Elves.

[Msßombastic-wyrmrest-accord]

But Beelzebot, aka the Robot Devil has a fantastic voice and great singing voice and is idioticly cunning, mechagnomes do and are not.

Mechagnome DH would probably be closer Hedonismbot.

Hedonism bot

[Aelora-wyrmrest-accord (Aelora)]

Well, those are certainly words.

There’s no reason left to limit players to what class/spec they are playing. The lore has been jumbled, retconned, and quite often, HAD those class/spec combinations running around as NPCS -ALREADY-, just not allowed to players.

NE and Gnome Paladins are probably the best examples. Both can be priests and use some version of the Light, and in the NE example, have LITERALLY 2 of them in the Legion Order campaign. I swear it’s basically been down to Blizzard whining and dragging their heels because they don’t want to deal with the racial abilities.

To bring your D&D theme, we’ve been running 2nd Edition for a long time now due to some crappy DMs who were too rigid to grow with their players. Time to allow more homebrew and creativity already.

[Qubert-proudmoore]

I may agree, but first how many years WoW time has pasted?

Races over time can learn new tricks, it may not been in the lore to start with but why can’t that change over time?