Why I think Race-Class combinations ARE important, and removing restrictions could be harmful

Obviously, we’ve seen the Devs say they want to start moving towards a WoW that doesn’t have ANY Race-Class restrictions, and that appears to be starting with the likes of the Priest, Mage, and Rogue classes.

However, I personally feel the idea of opening up too many of these Race/Class combos could be actively harmful to WoW and its Lore – as some past combos already have proven.

Now, I think adding SOME additional ones would make sense – an “Eredar” or Nightborne Demon Hunter, for example – but I think SOME restrictions are absolutely, fundamentally important.

To me, while people love citing D&D as an example for “why people should be able to do anything they want”, I would argue D&D is also fundamentally very different.

See, D&D ISN’T about the “world” or the setting; it’s about the players. People don’t “get to know the game-world” beforehand; they create a character and backstory from scratch, and LEARN about the world as they go.

But WoW’s appeal has always been the WORLD of Warcraft, getting to see and experience all these new, interesting cultures. As an extension of the RTS games, those races/factions were not all “the same but with different skins”. Night Elves and Undead, for example, were extraordinarily different, both culturally and mechanically, and that was conveyed in how vastly different all of their units and buildings were.

And Race/Class combinations are an extension of those cultures.

Now, obviously WoW can’t convert every single unit into its own individual Class, but most of those same archetypes can be found represented quite evidently in the Classes that WoW launched with.

Only certain races can be Druids; that immediately communicates that Druids are a class that have a deep connection to nature, and that races that CAN be a Druid ARE connected to nature, culturally. while Orcs may have a deep respect for the elemental spirits – allowing them to be Shamans – they are most certainly NOT “custodians of nature”, thus further showcasing the cultural difference between both Shaman and Druid, as well as Orc and Tauren.

Letting Night Elves and Orcs be Mages was a terrible idea, because for the former, that was LITERALLY the cultural distinction that lead to the Highborne breaking away and eventually evolving into High/Blood Elves, and for the latter, Orcs have NEVER been “studious, scholary wizards”, which is what sets Mages apart from “just anyone with any sort of magical aptitude”.

Now, I’m not opposed to “adding new Lore to JUSTIFY new combos”, although there’s rarely been the case. Tauren Paladins, for example, remain COMPLETELY disconnected from the Paladin class. They’re literally just “Sun Druids”, and that means “Paladin” is just a series of buttons.

And that’s it; not only does each RACE have a rich, interesting history behind it, but so does every CLASS. But when you just say “eff it, everyone can be everything, it doesn’t matter”, you’re throwing away ALL of that history. Races become nothing BUT “how they look”, and Classes become nothing BUT “the buttons you push”.

So as much as I’ve been impressed with everything I’ve heard about Dragonflight, this specific thing makes me INCREDIBLY nervous. Because it undermines both Races and the rich history and cultures they bring, and it also undermines the Classes and the history they bring as well.

Now, am I against ANY new Race-Class combos? Not necessarily; I just want options that I feel fit culturally. And at the same time, such as with the Demon Hunter, I can also understand that sometimes perhaps things can be a bit TOO restrictive, so Lore can and perhaps should be expanded to allow for new options.

Dwarf Shamans were a great example of an addition that made a TON of sense. Similarly, it ENHANCED the Dwarven culture, because Humans AREN’T Shamans, it showcased how their cultures differed.

In short; these “restrictions” help tell the story of the world, without even having to TELL you a story.

Now, if Blizzard wants to continue adding some “Allied Races” or “Subraces” or even rebrand them as “Heritage”, I could see being more lenient. For example, adding a sect of “Eredar who seek to mend the rift since seeing their brethren return home”, I could totally see adding an “Eredar” option that DOES have access to the Rogue, or the Warlock, but NOT things like Paladin, Shaman, or Priest. Lord knows I love customization.

But I also love having a world that feels truly immerse yourself in. Having been playing a lot of WoW Classic lately, I’m struck by just how much I miss its slower-paced, more “mundane” sort of world-building and storytelling. And frankly, some of the Race-Class combos are part of that; yes, ANYONE can pick up a gun or a bow, but is that really ALL that makes a “Hunter”? ANYONE can pick up a dagger, but does that suddenly qualify them as a “Rogue”, a class literally known for being expert assassins, pragmatic utilitarians that openly fight without any semblance of honor?

I think opening up certain options simply betray WHO the Races (or Classes) are, thematically and culturally.

Add some more Demon Hunters, and I’m totally down for Dracthyr getting other class options. And if I had the option, I might even consider even removing certain particularly heinous options (NE and Orc Mages, and Tauren Paladins; those are probably the most egregious), giving them free race-changes in the process.

I sincerely hope Blizzard reconsiders this idea of “letting everyone be everything”, and chooses only those who feel genuinely appropriate to the game’s world, and each race’s culture. Because otherwise, I think doing so could prove actively harmful to the game.

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I agreed with your title but didnt read any of what you said.

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The majority of the playerbase has spoken on their wants for the past few Expacs, the Devs have spoken on their stance this week: They want to move towards every race being able to be every class. And they are starting with Mages, Rogues, and Priests. Period.

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I understand I used to be exactly like you outside of blood elf druids on this point. However hard counter point time.
In the books that have most of the lore, the champion / hero / adventurer isn’t described by a single adjective outside of their profession (champion / hero / adventurer). We don’t know if their a blood elf, or night elf or even a vulpera that goes Yiff as hump everything because the character that is you is irrelevant and unimportant to the story of World of warcraft. You’re just a convergence to when no one can defeat the big bad but this group of random adventurers did with the power of friendship!

You could be a cyborg murloc with a bazooka and a blood elf female harem behind you and the story will never know because its not important. In the game it doesn’t matter if you are a vulpera doing burning crusade content, what happened already happened a “horde or alliance champion” did this, not you, but a champion did. There is no description not even gender of this said champion. The story is already set and the focus is on the lore characters like Jaina or Sylvanas. These are the characters and descriptions that matter.

Two: WoW is slowly dying and is way behind other MMORPGs they need to catch up or die FF14 is now a top competitor and one of their biggest highlights is you dont need to make multiple characters. Your warrior of light (champion or horde / alliance) can be any job at any time making it to where you can have every class on a single toon so you never have to regrind non power progression more than once. Most games have better customizations so blizzard is working on that.

Blizzard also knows player housing needs to be a thing but they need more income after losing so much money from the mass exodus. They need to be successful to gain more man power.

Three: Outside of void elf paladins shouldn’t existing (just kidding) why does it really matter outside immersion? Its not gonna affect game play (unless you’re that person obcessed with racials) and you may enjoy it more who knows?

Four: cross faction play and devs who couldn’t get there way ruined a good chunk of the lore anyways, lets just enjoy the game at this point.

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It’s an RPG.

If I make a character, and that character devotes itself to a class that is contrary to it’s race – it should be allowed because it should be assumed that my character worked really hard to become whatever that class is.

It’s the same reason cross faction is fine. I’d be okay with there being a faction defection quest so there could be orc allies or human horde.

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I don’t think the majority of players care about class lore so much that they don’t want access to race/class combos

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Inhales
No.
:cow:

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As I said in another thread:

There’s no real reason class combos for players need to exist in the lore. There’s outliers of every race and class in the lore. There’s a goblin that’s in the Alliance in SI:7. There’s a Draenei Warlock trainer in Shattrath, etc.

The thing is, the hero (us) are only canon as an unnamed hero. No class mentioned, no race, etc.

Who’s to say we aren’t one of those outliers?

As I said in the other thread, what if I wanted to pretend my character was a rebel gnome who joined Illidan, but then when she was freed in Legion, she wanted to follow the Horde?

This should be possible. (Which is why I’m also in favor of cross-faction pretty much everything).

Our character’s race/class doesn’t have to be canon to the story, and as such, it doesn’t need to follow the lore. Because there will be traitors who join the other faction. There will be say Draenei who defy Velen and delve into the Fel (just like the Void Elves defied the Blood Elves and delved into the Void). Etc.

The only real issue is when they canonize these combinations with named, tangible characters. For instance, they canonized a Night Elf Paladin. Prior to that, people considered NE Paladins lore-breaking as they don’t worship the Light. When they canonize things with named NPCs, it becomes a problem if they don’t explain it. But just player classes? They shouldn’t have to explain it.

Like, if they canonized a mechagnome demon hunter, but gave no backstory? That’s a problem. But a mechagnome demon hunter player, that the player can create a backstory for, and those who see them can create one of their own in their head? That encourages imagination.

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I fundamentally disagree with your ideas OP.

You completely dismiss the individual agency of our characters. Each and every character is an individual, that can be shaped and influenced by their culture but they aren’t beholden to it. Just like in the real world.

To restrict them like that is saying they are nothing but a stereotype. Orcs aren’t known to be “studious, scholarly wizards” but that doesn’t mean they can’t be.

I’ve never been big into RP, but I personally like to think of my characters as an individual, with their own drives and ideals, not some monolithic unchanging, static race.

Second restricting class also limits those cultures that you speak of to never growing or evolving. They become static and boring.

Most of the races have been living together and sharing their cultures for a long time now, to say that they haven’t shared things as core as learning and beliefs cheapens all of them.

Dwarves and Humans have been allies for a very long time, Dwarves wouldn’t be Paladins or believe in the Light if Humans hadn’t shared those things with them. Why wouldn’t Dwarves do the same in return and share Shamanism with those Humans who were interested?

Restrictions on race and class combinations do nothing but lessen the game and its lore. It limits it unnecessarily and arbitrarily.

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I agree to an extent. Tauren rogue in particular is just ridiculous to me and was always just a meme suggestion.

That said, I understand what they are trying to do. There’s more than a few tauren that have become pirates. Outlaw spec on a rogue covers that, but from a logistic standpoint, you can’t restrict a race to a single spec. That’s part of the reason why undead aren’t just shadow priests exclusively.

I know some folks will bring up draenei rogues, to which I’ll once again remind them that the Rangari are a thing. I know we don’t generally like to discuss WoD for many reasons, but the introduction of the Rangari should have at the very least made draenei rogues a thing in Legion.

I’m not going to hit every single new combo as I would be here forever. Mainly just wanted to hit draenei and tauren as those two in particular seem to have the fanbase fairly divided. However, there is one thing I do want to address.

Anytime anyone goes on and on about night elf mages, in my mind you’ve just lost all credibility in the debate, especially if you’re trying to use lore as the argument. It’s well established that the initial batch of night elf mages after Cataclysm were returning Highborne/Shen’dralar and that the mages after that were new apprentices that were being trained after they rejoined the other night elves following the negotiation between Mordent and Tyrande.

By all means, use lore if you want to debate something, but at least KNOW the lore if you’re going to be critical of something and try to say it was something that shouldn’t have been done.

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They wrote the lore, they can do whatever they want.

In the WOW universe, blizzard is God. They can retcon and do as they please

You lore people can’t seem to get that through your heads. The story and the lore will go always towards profitability

Opening up more options gets people to play the game. I came back this month and dropped $200 because I wanted to support their new direction

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And this is what it comes down to. Even when I was against all race/class combos I couldn’t argue this.

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I’m definitely onboard with reversing course and taking some combinations out of being played.

It is world destroying to let every race be every class. I really wish they instead made existing class/race combinations more unique. For example Night Elf priests get a special Elune based move.

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One of my guild mates on horde said he’ll be making a tauren mage called frostbittnbeef
frost spec at that.

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The changes aren’t yet live, so certainly not final.

Now, it’s pretty unlikely they’ll change their mind. I get that. I’m simply suggesting that they reconsider this stance, not make any BLANKET decisions, and show that while there are no doubt players that DO want to see restrictions completely removed, that there are also players like me that DON’T.

Neither side’s perspective is any more or less valid than the other. I’m just laying out my view on the subject, because I think the game DOES lose something in the process.

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Yes please, i want tauren in the alliance.

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The lore is a dumpster fire at this point. Might as well allow all races into any faction and all races to play any class. It’s where it’s heading anyway. Only reason they’re rolling it out instead of doing it all at once is because of the tantrums.

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Too many players gotta have everything at this point. Blizz went all in on trying to please everyone and they’re painted into a corner now.

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This is actually how it was originally handled. Those that didn’t properly fit the cultural paradigm were put in an outcast area. That is why the Drag is underground and called “The Drag.” That is why even the Stormwind warlock trainer is in a basement. If you are a death knight, you literally get spit on your first time in your capital.

Your paladin doesn’t look like this because Blizzard decided to please the player base rather than stay true to the lore. You are not standing on firm ground here.

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