I mean… When we killed Kyveza, silken, and ansurek we got stuff people wanted. Spymasters, tank trinket, fist weapon, transmitter. There was a nice belt from queen but no ring first kill. Dropped on 2nd tho.
I just don’t think getting loot from content you haven’t done makes any sense.
So trinkets and cantrip items. That make up 1-2 slots on any given bosses. The other stuff?
You get a belt that’s maybe a slight ilvl upgrade but has worse stats than a crafted item, or a weapon that’s Crit Haste instead of Crit Mastery. Who cares?
It’s worse than that. The full raid drops exactly crest cap, so counting the gilded from heroic it’s 6/8M to cap.
Especially with the M+ changes, a full raid clear needs to be 270-360 crests.
That’s nice man.
You know, this comment annoyed me so I’m double responding to it. I ran a quick droptimizer sim to see what loot from the raid is actually an upgrade.
I sim for 1.3M DPS and I’m 5/8M (currently working on Kyveza).
Out of the 3 drops I can get on Kyveza, ZERO are upgrades. (This includes Catalyst but I’m not counting them).
Out of 5 drops I can get on Silken, ONE is an upgrade. It is the same trinket I have but higher ilvl.
Out of 6 drops off Ansurek, TWO are upgrades. (5 drops if you don’t count the tier token).
These upgrades are worth 11-15k each. Not awful, but when I’m spending 200+ pulls to kill a boss, I don’t really care about maybe getting an upgrade worth 1% of my DPS.
Out of every single drop in the raid, only three are worth more than 1% DPS. An upgraded Spymaster is worth about as much as getting the Cantrip neck off Sikran compared to my crafted neck.
Getting a weapon off the hardest boss in the game (Mythic Queen) would be a whopping SIX HUNDRED DPS upgrade.
Like why even care at that point?
I looked at my gear again and literally wearing only four pieces of raid loot. One from Heroic (Spymasters), the other three are off the first four bosses in the raid. Everything else is either from M+ or crafted.
Thanks, forgot that cap was 90 instead of 60 for some reason.
All of this is true.
Peoples’ minds haven’t adjusted to the reality of what upgrades mean.
Mostly explaining why it is bad to me, not why it is good.
I wish it would be better, I still want them to buff raid droprates so it doesn’t feel as bad and be a bigger advantage early. Because at the end the difference like you said is minimal, but even minimally better this is enough for M+ players to want always more. For me that minimal difference makes it so at least I might get some loot from raid and be happy to get it. It might not happen as much as I’d want but it certainly makes it more fun when it happens.
I’ve reached that point also on my main. I began leveling alts. Now I miss progressing with my main. But nothing about healing mythic+ is enjoyable or fun. The crest changes are too little too late. M+, simply put, is a terrible end game design. Especially if it’s main purpose is to keep us happy to keep subscribers playing. Who enjoys doing this to themselves?
Honestly, if a M+er does AotC and gets a Spymaster that they can upgrade to 639, who cares? It’s not really any different to me getting a Mythic Sacbrood in my M+ vault and then upgrading that to 639.
The point of my post was that if you’re going DEEP into Mythic prog, you’re not doing it for the loot and honestly, that’s fine. Loot is a means to an end, not the end itself.
IMO the two major pain points of raid gearing are like I’ve outlined earlier in the thread.
Crests. It’s simply not practical to get enough crests by purely raiding because of the lockouts. If lockouts exist, then increase crests from raid exponentially. Especially with the recent changes that Blizzard have announced that do the same for M+.
Rework raiding vaults. Raiding vault is basically complete garbage unless you’re already clearing CE and at that point, who gives a crap about loot? You’ve already won PvE at this point, loot is of little practical use.
I might not be doing it for loot mainly but every rewards make the content more fun and gear is a pretty cool reward. Not having it even if a small upgrade I think would make content more boring to me a lot, it’s great to be able to get something good from killing a boss.
I think at this point if you simply don’t care then there might as well not be loot. Because for me then loot becomes more a chore if it’s not about progressing hard content which I think is much worse.
What they need to start with is simply buff raid loot from .2 to .3 per person and make tier set extra loot. This would be a meaningful change and make raiding a bigger advantage early, while M+ will always be able to catchup no matter. This and buff crests from raiding so it can also be used as catchup for crests so people aren’t stuck doing 100 M+ to catchup.
What about reversed people who dont like raiding and only M+.
this smells like bait. noone quites a game like this over 1 small thing. if you dont like something dont do it. no need to quit over it. i dont like raids so i dont do them, im happy doing keys (when the community isnt toxic) and other stuff like old mount and tramsmog farming
also if you get a good guild keys become 100% better. hell, my guilds dead as a rotten fish but the handful of people that do pop on are really nice to do keys with
We’re already at that point though? Like I wrote in my post, there are three bosses in M Palace I’ve yet to kill and out of the combined 14 drops I can get (not counting Catalyst or the bonus tier off Queen), three are upgrades and fairly minor ones at that.
Getting a Mythic Spymasters is only cool if you don’t already have a Heroic Spymasters.
And I disagree, to me those small advantages are good enough to be incentives. While sure I’m fine if we want to make it bigger, this would be better to me.
There’s no disadvantages to me to simply buff the amount of raid loot, moreover if the problem is that the advantages are too small. This would make raiding better early which it can use and would make getting those pieces of loot like spymaster much easier.
Then why not post on your retail toon that supposedly quit, cuz right now, all I’m seeing is a low level classic toon that has never posted here before. Mythic+ isn’t even considered end game by Blizzard, raiding is. They don’t release a cinematic based upon what the next set of 8s are going to be.
Not even.
realistically, 13 ilvls on 3 items is just under 0.25 key levels worth of power. There is maybe an edge case on people who are pushing title where this can impact something, but that’s going to be less than 100 people worldwide.
They’re doing fine. Got more than enough loot to get started, and enough crests to both upgrade and craft.
Been saying for years that the raiding great vault needs to fulfill its purpose of being insurance:
PLEASE read what I am writing. I am NOT arguing to nerf M+ loot. I AM arguing to buff raid loot, specifically through Crests and Vault to reduce the reliance on doing M+ as a raider.
My argument that end-tier Mythic raid loot is not great is NOT because I want the loot buffed, it’s because like I said above to Hpellipsis, there is no consistency in quality in Mythic Raid loot, you’re just as likely to get your BiS off the first boss as the last so it doesn’t MATTER if it’s easier to get Queen or Court loot in your vault.
And I’m also saying to buff raid loot, through the simple way of buffing the amount of loot that drops. This is the most dumb proof way to do it. You don’t need to think about how to make a new system you just move a number.
If your system goal is trying to solve something that this doesn’t do, it’s because it’s not trying to only buff raid loot.
You seems to be under impression that raids are more important than mythic+ runs, they are not.
The most important activities are the ones which people subscribe to play this game.
If Ion pushes raiding it does not mean anything.