I’ve geared seasons with m+ without mythic raid, unless you want specific items from the raid you won’t be much penalized. You might get 3 ilvl less as crafting lets you get there. The difference is simply not dramatic, raids letting you gear faster early is not a major difference moreover when M+ lets you gear early from hero track it’s a tradeoff. While sure it’s not as fair as you’d want but both contents have advantages hence why raiders still do M+ anyway.
I guess op has been living under a rock. M+ has been like this for a long time now lol.
Im also confused as to why they think things have changed.
Raiding has always boiled down to raid logging until m+ was released.
Kind of just feels like a low effort ragebait/troll thread.
Not saying it has to be purely better, just want raiding to be buffed up so that it’s close to on par with M+, and not the side dish that it’s been for the past 8 years.
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Why? You can get heroic level gear from doing delves. If your guild is not just dumb, you can smash normal out in less than 1.5 hours.
There are literally communities around getting people through AoTC. Normal / Heroic raiding is still there, and you dont need to grind muhpluh to do it.
I mean this doesn’t solve why M+ is important to raid progression and that’s simply because you do not get enough crests or vault slots from raid, and both of those are turned off completely when a guild inevitably makes the decision that reclearing is no longer worth the time.
Why would I do normal when I can just do 7s or 8s for gear that’s actually useful?
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Being able to gear faster from raids mean less m+ early to get hero track and less weeks of vault needed to reach a point where you feel done.
This ignores the existence of crests. It’s pretty easy to get a ton of hero track gear, again you can spam M+ infinitely for it. The thing that gates gearing right now is Crests.
And you simply do not get enough from raids.
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They should also buff crests from raid again they can simply move a number.
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What are you even talking about? Raid gear goes higher than M+ gear. Unless you’re talking about LFR, which isn’t really raiding.
They both go to ilvl 639.
Raiding drops mythic loot in the instance and the vault, M+ only from the vault.
Oh yeah? How many pieces of Mythic raid loot to you usually get in a week, at various stages of progression?
Oh right. You don’t raid Mythic. And don’t know what you’re talking about.