But the delve heroic drops are only from the vault, which you also get from a +3. The T8s drop 603 champ gear, same as a +5. From a pure “efficiency” perspective, M+ is the way, due to spamability and number of crests. Assuming you have a group already or are a desired role/spec of course.
But even with that, there is nothing game design wise forcing anyone except delvers to do other content to fully upgrade the gear dropped from that content (in a reasonable fashion). It’s either a personal or guild issue, neither of which are under Blizzard’s control. 
I like his idea.
Personally I think Blizzard should release a retail server with Mythic + disabled. Would probably be one of it’s most popular servers. We get to play retail in a way the resembles the glory period of BC-Panda.
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Seems easy enough to just not do m+ on current servers than to go to an entirely new server, no?
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I think what would actually happen is people would go into the raid, struggle, and complain they can’t over gear content to make it doable for them by hitting a loot pinata until the gear they want falls out.
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Everyone knows it’s impossible to clear heroic raids without mythic raid quality gear.
I mean… The raid felt fine pre nerf at 610 or so, despite that it still got heavily nerfed and people 619+ were still struggling.
I don’t wanna see how those people do when they can’t even reach 619 because their ilvl source doesn’t exist.
Except WoW had this system for 14 years where Mythic + wasn’t a thing and heroic gear with some low level mythic was more then enough.
Also no one is saying remove the item upgrade system. People will still be able to upgrade their heroic gear and their early Mythic raids gear and of course there is crafted gear. Gear is only an issue on world first races. After a few weeks, even if Mythic + was removed, it would be about attempts on boss, not dps checks.
People on a zero Mythic + server would understand that it will be more about mechanics then faceroll due to overgearing the content.
Just be the guildy who only logs in for raid and is like 10 ilevs behind.
Being the only infinitely farmable source of heroic track drops as well as crests gives M+ an edge over all other PvE content.
No matter the content that you choose to focus on all roads lead to upgrading your gear through M+.
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Exactly. Feeling guilty for not doing something I enjoy is working as intended for Blizzard
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Then make a heroic guild that doesn’t do mythic+?
You’re not wrong in that there is a gaping progression hole if you don’t do M+… luckily for me, I happen to enjoy it. I feel for those that don’t.
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But I love Mythic raiding.
Mythic + is required to compete and to enjoy Mythic raiding without feeling like a burden to guild mates, I am forced to do it…instead of how it use to be when you could enjoy Mythic raiding in peice.
Heroic raids are not a challenge. I cleared the first season on the second week for heroic. It is the months of challenge and grind of Mythic raids that I enjoy…on raid NIGHTS. I do not enjoy the daily requirement to push Mythic + for gear/upgrade material or feel like I am letting the raid down. Also 3x the issue playing a tank/healer.
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Think he got benched from prog for someone that did m+ for gear….
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Some maybe, I think we require 4 keys a week til prog is over. Most just do them after raid night for maybe an hour, it feels more like an extension of raid time than anything else since we only do 3 hour nights. It feels a lot better than expecting people to do it in their own time.
We’ve been done for a month though, not doing keys for vault unless I wanna push.
Nope, but if that was true then just more evidence that Mythic + punishes players who do not like it.
If the delves —> mythic plus crowd is any indication, gear only helps so much lol. I’ve seen 616 people die to mechanics in a 4 let alone 7s.
The requirement to do M+ basically made me done with higher end content. I’m a filthy casual now and having more fun. To each their own, I’m not in favor of taking M+ away, I just hated participating in it.
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No one can “force” us to do anything we don’t like in WoW.
If you don’t enjoy X, stop doing X. If you can’t do Y because some guild says you MUST do X, then find another guild or another game or adjust your expectations in WoW to reflect your degree of commitment.
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You need to start using Bountiful Coffer Keys then.
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