Ion comes to my house and forces me to do M+.
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Yet when we look at the best players in the world competing for world first, the winners didn’t have much in terms of M+ exclusive gear. Which indicates that for the average player who is much, much worse than the best players in the game … M+ is merely an activity that provides players with more gear - nothing about it is required.
If you got a guild full of people who want to do PvE, then sure. Comparatively speaking you theoretically could be a liability, but in practical terms you are unlikely to be that. This means that the whole thing about “just raid if that’s what you wanna do” being killed by M+ is just simply wrong. For the overwhelming majority of people who like PvE content in WoW, M+ is simply just another avenue of PvE that doesn’t require weekly planning - and that’s it.
If anyone thinks M+ is this thing to be avoided, find likeminded people and raid with them.
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This is why I say Legion was worse than WoD for the health of the game.
Forced how? Why do you need the higher end gear if you aren’t doing that content
Keys put up a fair amount of resistance. They’re just spamable.
But they did farm it on repeat to crest cap. There was no other way to crest cap.
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How are you forced to do m+?
You said it became “pretty obvious.” I’m not seeing it. Can you explain your thought process a little here?
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If I don’t want to be deadweight for my raid group, I am forced to spam keys between raid lockouts.
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Having nothing to do is such a better option
Only having raids as the only form of content is not better
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Yes?
If you are rushing then sure, that’d be the one thing one can say about M+. If you are in a competition to rush to get crests so you can upgrade the gear you get from raid and via crafted gear, then… yes?
Which part of “Crests” equates to “M+ exclusive gear” according to you…?
Unless you are rushing to get your stuff done for a competition, why would this matter though? You still get crests from raiding, Delves, and more. If one want to avoid M+ to the degree that folks who go with the “forced M+” narrative do, then there has to be something that makes this a requirement - not a personal choice.
Crests is how we upgrade gear, or obtain crafted pieces. Nothing about this forces you to do M+ in order to raid, at all.
I’ve touched mythic plus each expansion since Legion and this last one +2 for CoT was just really hard. Especially the Xalatath bargain
you can “just raid” all you want.
but if “the best gear I can get” is your goal in the game, then you need to do the things necessary to achieve that goal.
you could run heroic dungeons, delves, and LFR. You would see all of the content.
your ilevel wouldn’t be super high, but you also wouldn’t need a super high ilevel to enjoy that level of content.
You only need 630+ ilevel if you are pushing the endgame to its limits.
and if you intend to do that, then you need to grind out whatever you need to do in order to be ready for that.
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But you’re not? Delves give heroic gear at +8 and are much easier than +7 mythic plus keys (which give heroic drops, but you aren’t guaranteed to be one of the winners)?
I only did raids until SL S3. I embraced the challenge of M+ and then I became hooked.
Which is why millions (yes that is accurate) of players will not play retail WoW anymore. Some play classic or some moved on. Mythic + for a large player base is forced content that people don’t like.
Mythic + for a large portion of the player base has the same effect as a game that just up and decided after many years that PVP is now required and PVE players just have to do it. It forces the same outcome.
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Yeah that’s why I haven’t been playing either. It’s so dumb to force players into an elitist environment just to take down PVE rares in open world content. Also Mythic PLus gear should be null and void in PVP settings. Periodt.
Please say you are trolling
1 piece from vault. Not infinity farmable.
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A simple post sure, but also a deeply hyperbolic one.
No one is forcing you to do m+. And if your guild is threatening to remove you because you don’t want to run m+ then that’s on your guild, not you.
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Name one non-major named guild that expects people to do them?
I used to raid, I was never required to do extra content. It was encouraged but never forced. When LFR came out I’d run it because I wanted to complete my 4 piece if I could, but could also handle content with a 2 set of the last tier with the lastest 2 set. And was fine with the content I was doing until I could get my 4 piece.
Ilvl means nothing in raids if you can’t have your 2 piece at least for some classes.
But no one is forcing you to run other content.
But as everyone else says: vault. If I’m thinking correctly, there’s a way to convert the gear with the potential for a tier piece. (Or something like that.)