10/26/2018 10:32 PMPosted by
Calixto
I mean the primary problem with your assertion about him not being much different from Windrunner is that in a lot of ways, Windrunner has the perfect mentality to lead the Forsaken. It's just hampered by three things.
1. Her questionable ways of expressing 'love' to her people, which comes off like an abusive relationship.
2. Her inability to balance pragmatism with morality, and overly aggressive attacks on the Alliance.
3. Her manipulative attitude towards her subjects in the sense she feels whatever is right for her view of the world, is right for all of them, and dragging them all along with it.
Nathanos has expressed doubt at pretty much all of these situations and frankly because the majority of his hostile actions have been directed at the Alliance, rather then his people, I don't have nearly as much of a negative response to his leadership.
I mean you're essentially asking me to pick the lesser of two evils here. But you're right, I'd much rather have Nathanos in charge.
I'll still be here waiting for him to grow a pair though. He acts like such a rabid dog towards everyone else but them turns into a mewling kitten when Sylvannas so much as even looks in his direction. It would be insanely satisfying to watch him finally climb out of that hole Sylvannas has put him into.
Would also be much needed and wanted character development. I want to see how he's like when he isn't fawning over his homicidal Warchief.
I do think that characterization comes much clearer in BtS. I think part of why in BfA he IS leaning so hard into it is his own doubts. There are times when one doubts they get MORE...call it fervent.
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10/26/2018 10:32 PMPosted by
Calixto
I mean you're essentially asking me to pick the lesser of two evils here. But you're right, I'd much rather have Nathanos in charge.
I'll still be here waiting for him to grow a pair though. He acts like such a rabid dog towards everyone else but them turns into a mewling kitten when Sylvannas so much as even looks in his direction. It would be insanely satisfying to watch him finally climb out of that hole Sylvannas has put him into.
Would also be much needed and wanted character development. I want to see how he's like when he isn't fawning over his homicidal Warchief.
...Is it kind of weird that I like that 'rabid dog' aspect of him?
In the sense that, the man has devotion to whatever cause he actually believes in. If that cause was the 'Forsaken' and not 'Sylvanas' that aggression could be pursued in a positive way, taking a hardline stance against the nations that might threaten the Forsakens sovereignty.
Nathanos is the middle ground where proffesional and zealot meet. He's good at what he does, and he
enjoys doing it, whatever cause he's behind is the cause he'll fight to the death for. I find that admirable, the only problem is the cause he's chosen to devote himself to.
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10/26/2018 10:34 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I do think that characterization comes much clearer in BtS. I think part of why in BfA he IS leaning so hard into it is his own doubts. There are times when one doubts they get MORE...call it fervent.
If anything, his portrayal in BtS served to only confuse me further. In there, you clearly seem him express disapproval for what she is doing but then ultimately lets it slide and makes absolutely no mention of it anymore. They go out of their way to show that he has doubts but then an instant later they write him out to be this top hat wearing villain who's apparently okay with children burning to death? And then he openly mocks Tyrande in her state of grief, again, expressing absolutely no remorse for the atrocities his Warchief is ordering him to commit.
Unless his seeming doubt only exclusively extends to the Forsaken, other races be damned whether they are Alliance or Horde.
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10/26/2018 10:34 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I do think that characterization comes much clearer in BtS. I think part of why in BfA he IS leaning so hard into it is his own doubts. There are times when one doubts they get MORE...call it fervent.
If anything, his portrayal in BtS served to only confuse me further. In there, you clearly seem him express disapproval for what she is doing but then ultimately lets it slide and makes absolutely no mention of it before. They go out of their way to show that he has doubts but then an instant later they write him out to be this top hat wearing villain who's apparently okay with children burning to death? And then he openly mocks Tyrande in her state of grief, again, expressing absolutely no remorse for the atrocities his Warchief is ordering him to commit.
Unless his seeming doubt only exclusively extends to the Forsaken, other races be damned whether they are Alliance or Horde.
If I could guess, I think it is part a facade (not all) of bravado and certainty to outsiders. Taliesin in a vid he did talked about the framing of the Horde starting cinematic (the one with Zul on the Boat). Rewatch how Zul prods Nathanos, and how Nathanos responds. I think there is something to be said for the idea that he reacts even harder when he is having his own inner doubts (which we the players can't see).
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Sorry Blizz sacrificed the Night Elves to Sylvanas so you could have a dramatic story and feel like a righteous victim. If you hate it, hate Blizzard, not Forsaken and Forsaken fans.
I have plenty of threads about the Night Elves. This actually isn't one of them. I actually didn't post anything about the Night Elves at all in my post starting this thread.
And I will say to you as I've said to others, I do not hate Forsaken fans, and if you're posting that, you clearly haven't read my post or any of the conversations stemming from it, so you're not actually contributing to anything. People do love talking to themselves, but that's all a drive thru post like this is.
10/26/2018 10:39 PMPosted by
Calixto
10/26/2018 10:34 PMPosted by
Saiphas
I do think that characterization comes much clearer in BtS. I think part of why in BfA he IS leaning so hard into it is his own doubts. There are times when one doubts they get MORE...call it fervent.
If anything, his portrayal in BtS served to only confuse me further. In there, you clearly seem him express disapproval for what she is doing but then ultimately lets it slide and makes absolutely no mention of it anymore. They go out of their way to show that he has doubts but then an instant later they write him out to be this top hat wearing villain who's apparently okay with children burning to death? And then he openly mocks Tyrande in her state of grief, again, expressing absolutely no remorse for the atrocities his Warchief is ordering him to commit.
Unless his seeming doubt only exclusively extends to the Forsaken, other races be damned whether they are Alliance or Horde.
I think that second point is undercut by the fact that Nathanos obviously pretends not to hear Sylvanas when she gives the order to fire the first time around. That said the man has
nothing but contempt for any enemy that he's arrayed against, that sardonic wit turns to pure malice against whatever he's in battle against even when he doubts his own actions.
Which is cruel, absolutely. But then again our enemies are now apparently turning slain nature spirits into void abominations as a means of psychological warfare.
A thread about Forsaken becoming a !@#$show after 3 pages?
What a shocker.
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10/26/2018 09:16 PMPosted by
Ariël
Ok, you want the off-gloves version, you got it.
Your thread is pointless, rude and manipulative -there I said it-.
I hope you understand how ridiculous you sound with all this obnoxious "THAT'S IT, THIS TIME I'M
REALLY GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU! I HOPE YOU'RE READY!" stuff. Why do you write like that? You don't actually think you're doing something courageous or profound by being a ##%##**# to someone on the internet, right?
10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by
Calixto
*disgruntled old woman noises*
MAYBE I'll warm up to him eventually, but right now he just comes off that way to me.
Nonono. Don't warm up to him. You're not alone. Nathanos is terrible.
10/26/2018 10:17 PMPosted by
Saiphas
Forsaken players have a bit of a different take on him, in their questing they earn his respect. They also actually like the snark he gives. but its a YMMV situation
Definitely a YMMV situation. I loathe Nathanos, and the amount of spotlight he's eating up this expansion is driving me insane. He's barely even a character; he's just an edgy, snarky projection of Sylvanas's will.
10/26/2018 10:44 PMPosted by
Banisha
A thread about Forsaken becoming a !@#$show after 3 pages?
What a shocker.
But then it got better again toward the end! It's actually been a pretty interesting roller coaster.
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10/26/2018 10:41 PMPosted by
Amadis
you clearly haven't read my post or any of the conversations stemming from it, so you're not actually contributing to anything. People do love talking to themselves
I guess I'm just not deep enough to understand your Truth. But I saw the ending of your epic adventure was that you are rich and handsome and have a balla wardrobe, so good for you!
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10/26/2018 10:44 PMPosted by
Banisha
A thread about Forsaken becoming a !@#$show after 3 pages?
What a shocker.
Three pages after that it got better. Threads about Forsaken can actually go well when people go about them reasonably.
10/26/2018 10:36 PMPosted by
Darethy
Nathanos is the middle ground where proffesional and zealot meet. He's good at what he does, and he enjoys doing it, whatever cause he's behind is the cause he'll fight to the death for. I find that admirable, the only problem is the cause he's chosen to devote himself to.
I'm going to say that Sylvannas herself hurts his character greatly even though she is a huge reason why he is the way that he is now. Blizzard makes it a point to show us her overwhelming presence in his unlife to the point where they even hint that she is manipulating his feelings for her to mold him into her perfect, loyal soldier. It's hard to talk about him on his own without mentioning Sylvannas.
For me, it'll make it all the sweeter when he...if he eventually breaks free from her hold on him. I may not personally like him yet, but he would earn my undying respect...and support.
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10/26/2018 10:46 PMPosted by
Calixto
10/26/2018 10:36 PMPosted by
Darethy
Nathanos is the middle ground where proffesional and zealot meet. He's good at what he does, and he enjoys doing it, whatever cause he's behind is the cause he'll fight to the death for. I find that admirable, the only problem is the cause he's chosen to devote himself to.
I'm going to say that Sylvannas herself hurts his character greatly even though she is a huge reason why he is the way that he is now. Blizzard makes it a point to show us her overwhelming presence in his unlife to the point where they even hint that she is manipulating his feelings for her to mold him into her perfect, loyal soldier. It's hard to talk about him on his own without mentioning Sylvannas.
For me, it'll make it all the sweeter when he...if he eventually breaks free from her hold on him. I may not personally like him yet, but he would earn my undying respect...and support.
That's pretty much where i'm going with this yes.
The moment he turns is the moment his entire character is reframed.
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10/26/2018 10:45 PMPosted by
Kazala
10/26/2018 09:16 PMPosted by
Ariël
Ok, you want the off-gloves version, you got it.
Your thread is pointless, rude and manipulative -there I said it-.
I hope you understand how ridiculous you sound with all this obnoxious "THAT'S IT, THIS TIME I'M REALLY GOING TO GIVE IT TO YOU! I HOPE YOU'RE READY!" stuff. Why do you write like that? You don't actually think you're doing something courageous or profound by being a ##%##**# to someone on the internet, right?
10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by
Calixto
*disgruntled old woman noises*
MAYBE I'll warm up to him eventually, but right now he just comes off that way to me.
Nonono. Don't warm up to him. You're not alone. Nathanos is terrible.
10/26/2018 10:17 PMPosted by
Saiphas
Forsaken players have a bit of a different take on him, in their questing they earn his respect. They also actually like the snark he gives. but its a YMMV situation
Definitely a YMMV situation. I loathe Nathanos, and the amount of spotlight he's eating up this expansion is driving me insane. He's barely even a character; he's just an edgy, snarky projection of Sylvanas's will.
10/26/2018 10:44 PMPosted by
Banisha
A thread about Forsaken becoming a !@#$show after 3 pages?
What a shocker.
But then it got better again toward the end! It's actually been a pretty interesting roller coaster.
Hey Kazala, absolutely a YMMV situation, I personally don't like Nathanos' attitude, but I think I can see why it can be appealing for others. Also, did you ever get a chance to look at my reply to you on the Zandalar hypothetical?
10/26/2018 10:41 PMPosted by
Amadis
you clearly haven't read my post or any of the conversations stemming from it, so you're not actually contributing to anything. People do love talking to themselves
I guess I'm just not deep enough to understand your Truth. But I saw the ending of your epic adventure was that you are rich and handsome and have a balla wardrobe, so good for you!
I love people lecturing about contributions to their moronic threads.
You know how to contribute to a dung heap?
I can think of a simple way.
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I saw the ending of your epic adventure was that you are rich and handsome and have a balla wardrobe, so good for you!
Certainly not rich, as I am technically still below the median income in the U.S., though not by much. Definitely feels like being rich compared to how I grew up, though. I'm not vain enough to say I'm handsome, but I do like looking in the mirror now. But I will say that my wardrobe is very flattering for me - I actually got my first nickname ever back from the kids at The Culinary Institute of America. They called me Three Piece Amadis. Makes me blush even now just thinking about it.
None of that actually has anything to do with my perception on the Forsaken, though. All of that was to highlight that despite having worked hard enough to actually earn my success and got myself out of the pit I dug myself into, my depression still hinders me heavily. And it is in my depression that I see a reflection in the Forsaken and their spreading their similar suffering that I hate.
There's an actual TL;DR version for you.
10/26/2018 10:47 PMPosted by
Darethy
That's pretty much where i'm going with this yes. The moment he turns is the moment his entire character is reframed.
I think that's when the whole of the BfA expansion will be worth trudging through Horde side. To get to that single moment in time, if it comes. When Nathanos finally comes out of the overwhelming shadow that is Sylvannas endlessly towering over him.
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*Sigh*
This all just makes me wish that instead of burning Darnassus, or killing Malfurion, the goal of the War of Thorns was to capture Genn Greymane and put his head on a pike for Stormheim and then immediately withdrawing.
That would of been way more interesting.
If Blizzard's Forsaken storyline is giving these Alliance RP nuts such spasms - I am liking it much more.
I was having fun with the Horde and Sylvanas just being right.
But watching Alliance players meltdown is a nice bonus.
10/26/2018 10:47 PMPosted by
Darethy
10/26/2018 10:46 PMPosted by
Calixto
...I'm going to say that Sylvannas herself hurts his character greatly even though she is a huge reason why he is the way that he is now. Blizzard makes it a point to show us her overwhelming presence in his unlife to the point where they even hint that she is manipulating his feelings for her to mold him into her perfect, loyal soldier. It's hard to talk about him on his own without mentioning Sylvannas.
For me, it'll make it all the sweeter when he...if he eventually breaks free from her hold on him. I may not personally like him yet, but he would earn my undying respect...and support.
That's pretty much where i'm going with this yes. The moment he turns is the moment his entire character is reframed.
I was going to stay out of this completely, because frankly I despise Nathanos.
... But you two have actually sold me on it being possible to like Nathanos. After all, I despised Genn before, actually much for the same reasons Darethy does, but I like him considerably now. Which... means it's maybe possible for the same for Nathanos.
... Maybe. I don't believe it. But I at least believe it is a possibility now. So, good show to both of you.
10/26/2018 10:53 PMPosted by
Amadis
They called me Three Piece Amadis. Makes me blush even now just thinking about it.
There was a Night Elf who used to post here called Three Slot Bag. Are you them?