A case then (might be a bit graphic for some just fyi)…
A 3 guys and 1 girl work at a small company for 5 years and become friends.
One of the guys asks the girl if she would be cool letting the guys take shots off her breasts during the Christmas party.
The girl feels a bit uncomfortable but agrees because she wants to keep “fitting in” with the group.
The even takes place and then 2 days later the girl has regrets and then claims she was harassed and forced by intimidation into letting guys take shots off her breasts.
Is that harassments even though she agreed when outright asked?
Some say yes others would say no. Thats the issue I am talking about.
What if (and I am NOT saying they did) but what if the women and men in some of the cases alleged in the suit AGREED to do the things before hand.
What if a guy a Bliz recruited people (by ASKING them) to do cube crawls or w/e. And they people asked AGREEDED to do so.
Would that be in poor taste for a professional company? I think most would say yes that was a very degrading thing to do for the company and its employees.
Would that be harassment? Well…
Ok I will be blatant about it.
If I as a man claim to be a trans woman and then claim to be sexually harassed at work does that count towards the “sexual harassment towards women” stat?
Yep, and for legal repercussions innocent till proven guilty absolutely applies.
But social media, forums, and anything we’re involved in have absolutely nothing to do with the legal process so we do not have any reason nor obligation to treat it that way. We all can absolutely make judgements based off the information available. We have no obligation to continue to horrific behavior that makes victims scared to come forward and share their stories, we have no obligation to hear to hear out some rich millionaire and their PR-dribble that aims to sweep this under the rug.
I’m sure everyone would love to know, which states allow sexual harassment in the workplace to the extent of driving someone to killing themselves? I’d love to avoid that state at every cost possible. And how is investigating widespread sexual misconduct in the workplace of a multi-billion dollar company “corrupt”?
Are…are you saying its NOT POSSIBLE for these people to be lying or exaggerating?
No I am not I am saying its possible.
Yes people can lie and commit a crime by lying under oath…this is news to you?
I am not dismissing the claims I am saying this is one possible situation that needs to be addressed by facts and counter points before we burn Bliz at the stake.
My saying that its POSSIBLE they are lying is not the same as saying they are.
But yes I will push back against PC culture any and every day…though nothing here has to do with being PC as the issue is not that Bliz said something bad or banned someone for saying Free Hong Kong (wink wink) but that Bliz actually fostered and permitted an harassing work environment.
I feel like you’re just trying too hard to make this into something it isn’t. We don’t need hypotheticals, there is public information that tells us what we need to know, and we are going to find out more as the situation progresses. Yes, that is a possibility, but how many people do you think that would have applied to? Even if there were one or two cases of that happening, this isn’t just one or two people making allegations. Even if that applied to some of the people coming forward, that doesn’t mean the other people who were legitimately harassed don’t count anymore.
I don’t have an answer to that question. I suppose it would depend where they are and what laws there are regarding gender identity. What I didn’t understand about your question is how it was relevant to this particular situation. You’re pulling a lot of hypotheticals out of nowhere.
So you’re one of those shoe size IQ individuals who makes brain-dead claims and cannot provide anything beyond the brain-dead claims to back it up? Let me guess, the election was stolen, 1/6 was staged, and the Covid vaccine is a government tracker are all things you believe deeply in your soul
I’m saying, if you actually believed “innocent until proven guilty”, then how can you seriously consider alternatives that allege other people committed a crime? Do they not get the same standard as Blizzard does?
I agree which is why we need evidence and hearing statements from both sides.
I dont think just because some former employees claim sexual harassment means they are “more than likely tell the truth” because of them being women. Nor am I going to give their claim any more or less weight at the moment.
As I said my position is that something likely went on that was not proper but the degree and severity of which remains to be seen.
Like I dont think you are getting what I am saying here my dude.
THEY COULD BE LYING
or
THEY COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH
Why dont we wait and see what Bliz has to say about the accusations in their defense before we claim that these people are for sure telling the truth or for sure making it up.
Entertaining the possibility of something does not mean you accept it as true.
They didn’t do it all at once, no. It took decades. And it was mostly based on Republicans wanting to win in the south so they started to appeal to racism, and the parties gradually re-sorted themselves based on that. It’s well documented, and anyone who wants to look it up can, but again, neither here nor there when it comes to this discussion.
You’re right that we don’t have all the information yet. And I already addressed your “just because they’re women” point. It’s not because of Special Woman Privileges, it’s because of statistical evidence. I said more likely than not because it isn’t 100% certain. If I thought we should believe every woman because they are women, I wouldn’t have implied there was a possibility it could be false.
That’s always been a lie sold to the public.
Prosecutors work closely with police and judges, all of whom rely on closure, success and conviction rates to keep their positions.
Courts haven’t really ever worked to protect the innocent, and many criminal cases are won or lost on how deep the defense’s pockets are.
Plea deals literally undermine the whole justice system but are far too common.
But keep in mind this is a civil suit, not a criminal trial, and the burden of proof is much less than beyond a reasonable doubt.
It really depends on a variety of factors.
Did they agree to things because they felt their job/career depended on doing it?
Was it someone in a position of power?(like this suit alleges in some cases)
You’re right on the cusp of victim blaming, and it’s not a good place to be.
I do agree we need to wait to hear all the facts, but all the what ifs and they could be this or they could be that is a large part of the reason many victims never come forward.
Once again getting off topic responding to something that was not directed at me but…
The election has not proven to be stolen but there is no doubt that the various changes to voting rules made it much more untrustworthy and suspecious. I believe there is no evidence at the moment the election was tipped to one side via nefarious means but I think people you believe it was do have some decent points.
1/6 was not staged but also was not that big of a deal. Compared to the burning of cities from the riots before hand what happened at the Capitol was tame. People made a ruckus after being let in by officers to the building and vandalized some government property. They should be punished but giving them near life sentences is a bit extreme considering once again…rioters who literally burned cities or even occupied parts of some (CHAZ)
The COVID vaccine is not government tracking, but its also not something that should be forced on people if they choose not to take it because they are afraid of the risks involved.
My god politics, where everyone thinks they are right while almost without fail simultaneously being horridly wrong. It’s not a sane thing for real people to consider. Better to just ignore and let go as it is.
There is a big difference between me as a consumer deciding that I don’t want to shop somewhere that seems very likely to have treated their employees horribly (for a luxury good, not something essential for life) and the justice system.
Do you hold every decision in your life to the standard of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Even our justice system doesn’t have that standard for everything.
There is a preponderance of people coming forward and talking about what they saw or experienced. That’s enough for me personally, even though I still believe in our court system providing due process.
Blacks started to vote Dem after the Dems saw they could “buy their votes” by promising welfare. Thus even though the Dems were the racists at the time they swayed Blacks to their side because Blacks having been freed from slavery and Jim Crow did not have much wealth and thus could be bought with the promise of free money.
I agree this is well documented and people can look it up if they want. But no there was not switching of ideals over decades between the parties.
However none of this has any bearing on the current policy positions of either party. Both parties agree slavery is bad and neither party at this point in time has anyone on it that is responsible for enslaving anyone.
Well, I believe in “innocent until proven guilty”, therefore I cannot entertain a notion that presupposes someone committed a crime without evidence. Therefore I cannot entertain the former.
Also lol at implicitly presenting these two statements as if they are of equal probability.
There’s a list of 2 dozen past employees (that’re known and have gone public) either sharing their own horrendous experiences, or stating they’re not at all surprised it happened and acknowledging that was the workplace culture. And there’s a dozen current employees who have all either made broad “believe women” comments or comments narrowed down to a particular team (And considering the whole fear of retaliation from this very lawsuit … if you think current employees not making specific comments is damning you have severe brain rot)
is PR-speak from C-levels that’re trying to do damage control and retain their careers & company really hold more weight?
yeah you’re right, all those voting booths being closed in certain areas of the country was really sus
Literal lives were lost because butt hurt losers, but yeah totally not a big deal compared to property damage.
And everyone is free to make that choice, as is society free to exclude you because you bring inherit risk for those that actually have reasons to not be able to get the vaccine.
