Why hate neutrality?

Community General Discussion
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And herein lies the problem. You said it perfectly.

I am 100% confident that if Blizzard handled this better we wouldn’t be having this conversation at all.

Just a couple of years ago the idea of taking the faction war out of Warcraft would be absurd. But they handled it so terribly that it’s clear these writers have no passion for this aspect of the setting and just want to get it over with as quickly as possible.

And so, the game will continue to be watered down and lose aspects of its identity to satisfy the whims of mediocre writers who don’t like the setting they’re working with. They are incapable of evolving this setting without removing foundational aspects of the IP they’re working with. It’s just pathetic.

And again, just to be clear: to the people who WANT the faction conflict to end I honestly don’t blame you and understand your points. I just hate that it’s come to this.

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262

It is a flaw in thinking that Blizzard will write better stories without conflict. No conflict means nobody will have any real investment in said story. This thread shows a lot of how that investment was betrayed, and continuing will just be further betrayal and blandness.

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263

People will say it writing, people will say its “watering down”

But it all basically comes down to

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264

I agree with you but that’s not the point. Of course, Blizzard won’t write better stories just because they get rid of the faction war. Dragonflight has shown us that.

But that doesn’t change the PERCEPTION within the player base, which Blizzard has accidentally fostered through their baffling decisions during the last faction war. Too many people were left with a bad taste in their mouth from BFA. So much so that many players, rightly or not, blame the faction war itself as a reason why the story has been so bad lately.

And with new players coming in, a lot of them have only experienced the WORST aspects of the faction-conflict. They have no reason to be attached to it at all.

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Because its lame. I love my faction and I want nothing to do with the other side.

No stakes

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From what I can tell, it goes back beyond BFA.

The single biggest Narrative mistake the WoW Narrative Team made, was killing Varian at the beginning of Legion, instead of keeping him alive to be the instigator/Villain of BFA.

That choice led the game down the path that everyone hated, narratively speaking.

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267

Exactly.

The devs don’t even come close to satisfying both player bases in the slightest.

Looking at the Alliance, they have lost so many zones by now that it’s hard to keep track, and it’s pointless to mention in a side note that they technically won when the game doesn’t reflect that. And as we saw in the latest patch, they can’t even manage to give something decent in return. Not to mention that all the other zones are still destroyed.

Or the whole debacle with throwing in lackluster races after the Alliance.

On the Horde side, it’s not really satisfying either, as for the umpteenth time, you become the super villain blindly following the next deranged dictator, slaughtering everything around you, and casually contaminating or bombing entire regions. Doesn’t really come across as poor misunderstood outsiders.

Or, of course, the issue with the leaders themselves.

With the storytelling we have in WoW, factions just don’t work in this game even remotely. And honestly, strictly separating players based on the race they want to be has always been a more than questionable system. It can’t come fast enough that hopefully soon we can freely choose which side to join without absurd and completely outdated limitations.

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268

Varian isn’t really dead. He’s finally getting to enjoy some sexy time with Sylvanas, waiting for his Grand Res"erection".

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This is why if Blizzard was to try BFA/MOP style conflict 2.0, I’m against it. But outright deleting it from the game is equally bad.

They need to go back to the roots. Dragonflight is actually a great expansion to set that up, because we are back basically at the end of ROC alliances wise. It is the perfect position to use irreconcilable differences to chip away at the alliances that have been built.

The Gil’neas liberation was their first time post Dragonflight failing at this. What should have happened is Calia was either outvoted to cede it back to the worgen, or a more aggressive faction of the Horde refused to follow the directive of the Undercity. Smashing the Scarlets was extra bad because, while they were not directly allied with the Alliance, they did have goals that align. They should have kept going with the secret documents and the Scarlets help the worgen reclaim Gil’neas, only to backstab later.

Same result, but much more interesting drama to work with as the game goes forward.

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270

Speak for yourself. I love when ongoing settings evolve. In fact, one thing I’ve always liked about Warcraft is how technology becomes more widespread as the series advances (compare WC1 to WoD where we have giant steam ships and iron horde technology).

I also love the idea of Azeroth being updated as time goes on. I actually despise the in-game stagnation of the open world.

I especially love how the Titans went from vaguely “good” creators to Lawful Neutral entities who may not have our best interests in mind.

To speak about other settings: I love when things develop and change in Warhammer 40k. I hated the Star Wars sequels primarily because they just re-hashed the same story they did before but worse.

I’m all for change! But it’s how they go about it that matters, and whether or not they maintain the spirit of the IP as they do so.

So don’t try to assume my motives, please.

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271

i dont care lol. i wish i could be a human and just play horde plus alliance quests. faction war bs gotta stop

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272

I was carrying an M16 :grinning:

273

I would have loved to see the dwarves repairing the dam in LochModan.

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274

Speaking for myself, neutrality has its place, but unfortunately, Blizzard has often used it to the detriment of the factions.

Let’s look at Vanilla. Our primary neutral factions, the big ones which stood out, were the Cenarion Circle, and the Argent Dawn. Both of these factions were heavily tied to the Alliance. So, the Alliance lost this Druid and Paladin identity to neutrality. Meanwhile, the Horde doesn’t develop either a Paladin or Druid identity, and pals around with these Alliance themed organizations, feeling extremely out of place.

Moving forward to BFA, and we see this again. Draenei and Blood Elves, the Aldor and Scryers. These groups detracted from the identity of the faction the races were tied to, making both races feel neutral to an extent, which is rough because the Blood Elves at the time felt very much so like they already didn’t belong with the Horde (speaking to the sentiment of players at the time, mind you).

Come Wrath, this happens again, with the Kirin Tor. Now we’ve got the Alliance losing its mage identity, and the Blood Elves forced to ignore the events of WC3:TFT so the Horde can camp out in Dalaran as well.

Come Cata, it’s the Horde which finally really suffers identity loss with the Earthen Ring going neutral, and Alliance players feeling out of place among that faction with its Horde aesthetics (and during the run up to major conflict with the Horde at the same time, no less).

Neutrality takes identity from the factions so both factions can experience one story, but neither side ever feels a strong connection to the other side’s aesthetics, and when its their own aesthetics turned neutral, they only feel a sense of loss.

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The thing was before the lore was made to fit a wider class selection for the MMO each race had their own style of magic. The light and arcane was human/elf. Druidism was nightelf. Shamanism was orc/troll/tauren. If you want to get technical about it, it was weighted toward the Horde since there was nothing pre BC that was shamanistic for the Alliance. :man_shrugging:

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Because one has only so many cheeks to turn before it is time to run the hands.
And even a good man would take a second to consider the destruction of his most hated enemy at cost to the world.

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Except chili fries right?
:dracthyr_comfy_sip:

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Sure, lets get rid of the red vs blue this game was founded on for generic fantasy stories that are on par with the worse fan fiction I have ever read.

PVP servers were the most popular servers in the game, yet here we are worried about appeasing the PVE crowd because they don’t have enough players to play with.

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279

I do not want neutrality.

The conflict, espionage, and political manoeuvring between the factions is always far more interesting to me than another big world ending threat that I really don’t care about.

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280

i mean i would prefer to not have to group up with a filthy worgen, but the rest of the alliance i don’t have this blinding hate for or do i like any of them either way besides Dwarf (OG version) and space goats like your self your my favorite race and i want you on the horde