thats why you have pally offtank whelps, they do it better than warriors. You know that raids can have multiple tanks right?
Horde Side Prot Tank?
Make sure the shaman doesn’t cast Windfury Totem. Start there.
You want the Agility Totem.
Yeah, but you can’t leave all the work for your pallies. Use your shouts and generate some AoE threat.
People can’t hold their load for 5 seconds… understandable.
Rofl. I guess you aren’t aware of dps with threat modifiers then? Or you know, attacking the wrong mob, or AoEing off pull?
Classic ain’t no retail afk faceroll bull for tanks.
AoE abilities in defensive stance is limited to Cleave which only hits two targets and Demo Shout.
So while the tank is trying to pick up every mob whilst the Mage is spamming Blizzard and you have another dps single targetting someone with Earth Shocks or Mind Blasts the tank is going to have a real big problem.
Threat management is a mechanic for every single player to manage, not just the tank.
The only slight exception is healers who are forced to do AoE threat through healing. But even they have management in the form of not blowing massive heals into the tank before he gets into combat.
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Windfury is actually really good for (single target) tank threat, it just doesn’t help if your party also consists of big hitting melee users who are also benefiting from it though lol.
All Enhance Shammies should be totem twisting both anyway.
I smile everytime people are crying that not enough tanks are on in the LFG channel.
These Retail DPS players are the worst, just kick them out of party they are worthless. If they don’t like it , then can find another group or re roll a tank and do it themselves.
No, its not.
You know whats good for threat? Why would you give up…
5% to crit (3% from AGI, 2% from sharpening stone), 3% to dodge, extra armor… with Agi Totem all for…
a 20% chance to add an extra hit?
They still get 3% to crit to make up for the loss of an extra hit. Another 2% if they have sharpening stone.
I would posit that if they have a free slot for twist, they should be going STR and AGI(although in my experience the #2 is Mana Totem)… and then the melee can also use sharpening stones. WF simply causes too many conflicts and too little threat/damage for its worth in comparison to Agility at endgame. People are just obsessed about flashing numbers as it pertains to WF and they aren’t looking at the mechanics of it.
Get your crit up near 20% (I can hit 26.5% in raid from a 12.9% base), and you’ll generate threat far and beyond what you were in group. A crit doubles your threat on a hit, and doubles your rage from hit. And the extra rage can be used for other skills for even more threat. Getting your crit up literally pulls you out of the deep end when it comes to threat and rage generation and the single easiest way to do that is pitch WF for AGI. It becomes even more critical as your rage from hit starts to drop from quality gearing.
20% to generate an extra attack simply isn’t all that, particularly if it doesn’t crit.
Says the 120 Lightforged Draenei Paladin to the level 60 Classic Feral Druid tank.
Sorry, friend, but it’s the tank’s job to manage aggro. The DPS’s job is to do damage.
Also, “too dump.” Haha.
Yes, you can.
It’s amazing how many idiots think that a couple of trash mobs in a dungeon hitting the DPS means it’s going to be a wipe.
The mobs die in seconds and they hit like wet paper. Even if the tank can’t hold aggro, it’s not the end of the world, but in any case, the tank is at fault for not being able to hold aggro.
Exactly. So if you are losing aggro as a tank, it’s because your TPS is too low.
True. Threat is more of an issue for Horde, but the advantage is not as significant as you might imagine.
The top parses are almost all Horde because of Windfury, and tanks still manage to hold aggro just fine. I hold aggro in dungeon swithout a Paladin healer giving Salvation to the DPS just fine.
Exactly. Get a better tank that can actually hold aggro and that isn’t a problem.
Yeah, that does seem like a problem. Blizzard is less DPS than Arcane Explosion or Frost Nova + Flamestrike.
Which one?
Doesn’t even matter. If the tank manages to lose aggro, they have Feign Death.
Even if they don’t have Feign Death, the tank can just taunt and turn all that threat into their own. Then, as long as the tank’s TPS is higher than the Hunter’s, there will be no more aggro loss.
No, not really.
I’ll grant you it is more likely to do so than single-target, but tanks can hold AoE threat just fine if they know how to play.
Mages shouldn’t be using Blizzard unless they are specced for it and are doing it without a tank.
Hahaha. No. If you Blood Rage in Battle Stance without Tactical Mastery, you’re just wasting rage.
It’d be really great for tanking if you could use it in Defensive Stance, actually. Alas, you can’t.
Hahahaha. No.
Correct. Any amount of AoE threat will suffice, though. Battle Shout is good because it doesn’t reduce your damage taken or slow the attacks of the enemy, meaning they’ll proc various damage reflects more often, more swings to trigger Revenge, more rage from being hit, etc.
It also can’t be resisted, which is a nice plus.
Well, Cleave is not actually AoE, but you’re right.
No, Mages should not be using Blizzard to AoE DPS in a dungeon.
Shaman do not need to twist STR and AGI, these are separate totem types.
You only need to twist AGI and WF to keep both buffs active.
An additional attack isn’t something to scoff at for a tank, it’s additional threat, and more importantly increased rage generation which can be used for more threat or even for more mitigation.
As to your mention of crit, as you said a crit is double damage, double threat, and double rage. But you are talking 3-5%. WF is essentially a 20% crit chance as it grants that same double damage, double threat, and double rage whilst ontop of that being able to also crit by itself and having a huge AP modifier.
Neither is the low crit % required to use it.
#lolwut.
WF is a 20% chance to add an extra attack with added Attack Power. It does nothing for crit. If you’re rolling your 12% to crit, you’ll have 12% to crit that attack.
In the meantime, you’re giving up 5% to crit and 3% to dodge along with extra armor. There is no disputing WF could help threat, but its not in the zipcode of what Agility Totem does for you at endgame.
And start critting your shield slams more reliably, watch what happens.
This isn’t to say you’ll have jesus agro where nobody can pull it off you, but it’ll be far easier to manage packs and threat up around 18-20% to crit, and you won’t be crying on the forums about never having rage to play with.
There is also a reason I switched one of my professions to alchemy. I’ll use agility pots up to and including mongoose if I want to really have some fun.
Crit = 200% weapon damage attack including threat and rage etc.
WF = 100% weapon damage attack + 100% weapon damage attack including threat and rage etc, plus an additional chance to proc on hit effects such as unbridled wrath, whilst also having the chance to also crit allowing upto 400% weapon damage from 1 weapon swing.
You have a 20% chance to proc WF or as you said 5% increased chance to crit.
AGI merely provides more armour and dodge. WF generates substantially more threat and scales better with gear.
Toughen up buttercup. Tanks charging gold for runs provoked it.
I like how everyone here just assumes the DPS is misplaying here instead of the tank.
If you’ve had so many bad experiences by level 23 that you needed to rant on the forums, you’re probably doing it wrong.
Attack for 100 damage.
20% chance to deal an extra attack for 100 damage.
120 damage on average.
Attack for 100 damage.
20% chance to deal double damage.
120 damage on average.
That’s not accounting for the fact Windfury makes you attack with more Attack Power, either. That said, you don’t “Windfury” your special attacks, so it’s not quite the same as 20% crit.
Why do you have Shield Slam? Deep Prot is worse for threat than Fury/Prot.
You don’t need Alchemy to use consumables.
Didn’t even see that topic when I made this topic. Seems like you got a complex with tanks being capitalistic. So basically you’re saying a tank that will tank you for free should be neglected like this?
Yes.
/10char
How about you say a little more?
Why?
/10char
LOL enjoy your tank shortage. Keep stressing people out dps so people don’t wanna tank.
I’ve been making a KILLING charging for dungeon runs LOOOOOOOL easy peasy lemon sqeezy epic mount incoming!
supply and demand!
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