It does get tiring.
My favorite is when someone pulls aggro and decides let me run back out the dungeon instead of 2 feet forward towards the tank.
why are so many ppl so mean!
tanking is like being a dom. don’t repeat urself
Its still not the same as 20% to crit, because you leave out all the other aspects of AGI that you gain by getting there. Particularly dodge and armor. Also remember that the agi totem helps the whole group, and not just the hotdogger wanting to put up large numbers at the expense of the group.
One would consider that if you’re correct and the damage/threat is roughly equal(its not, because AGI totem opens other things), that you’re stripping down group avoidance for no real reason.
No interest in Fury/Prot, which is largely an off-spec meme that hasn’t really proven out beyond ultra-high end guilds that have been specifically structured to support it. To each his own, though.
No s***, sherlock. But it helps to be able to make them on demand, rather than have to go hunt an alchemist down. That alone makes it far more useful then a lot of the other professions… particularly since i’m doing it quite a bit.
I was a healer for 15 years. I’m new to tanking in Classic but I’ve tanked every dungeon from Ragefire Chasm to Molten Core and I think I have a good feel for it.
Tanking trash packs is not about making sure all the mobs are hitting you, it’s about control. You don’t need to have aggro on every mob 100% of the time, you just need to keep them off your healer (which is pretty easy) and make sure your DPS is following the kill order, if there is one. Keeping aggro on more than 1 mob against well-geared and well-played DPS is an exercise in frustration and futility, it’s your job as the tank to make sure you have aggro on the mobs you need to have aggro on and let the DPS take a few minor hits that won’t stress your healer.
Every class has tools to deal with pulling aggro. Good players will actually make your life easier and the run faster by using them.
DPS warriors wear plate. Plate matters in Classic. They can offtank whatever they’re attacking. They can tank big nonelite pulls better than you can with whirlwind and cleave.
Mages have unrivaled CC, even if you don’t count the sheep. AOE slows and roots for days plus iceblock if they’re spec’d for it. Your healer doesn’t have to heal damage nobody is taking.
Warlocks might wear cloth but they have a beefy health pool. Keep melee adds off of them and them tank the casters if you can’t keep threat on everything. They can drain life to heal themselves too, and appropriate use of fear can also save pulls going horribly wrong.
Rogues have stuns, evasion, feint, and vanish. Good rogues can tank 1 mob just fine.
Druids have bear form, enough said.
Hunter pets can offtank decently enough that I actually assign them OT targets routinely in my runs. Nobody cares if they die so they won’t stress a decently healer’s mana since the healer won’t prioritize them.
Edit:
My experience with fury prot has been a bit mixed. It’s great threat if and only if you’re dual wielding. The moment you slap a shield on impale prot (with mongoose up) does better threat from my own personal experience.
Yes.
It’s just another way to #%^* all over your tank.
When it’s between guilmates or friends it’s just another way of talking smack; “I dump all over your threat bruh.”
When it’s a pug it’s how you make the tank feel like a big boy (if he holds aggro) or like a filthy casual (if he can’t hold aggro).
Yeah, I said that.
Generally speaking, mitigation isn’t as important as DPS, especially when we’re talking about tanks struggling to hold aggro.
Dodging means fewer attacks land, which means less rage, which means fewer abilities, which means less threat.
Armor reduces damage taken, which means less rage, which means fewer abilities, which means less threat.
It only helps the physical DPS, exactly the same as Windfury (except Windfury doesn’t help Hunters).
It’s not at the expense of the group, buddy. The point of the tank is to hold aggro. Windfury is better for that purpose, and holding aggro better is to the benefit of the group.
You’re right. It’s not equal. Windfury is vastly superior in terms of DPS/threat.
Exactly what I thought. It’s no surprise people come to the forums complaining about not being able to hold aggro when they have this attitude.
Hahaha, what? It’s the superior build regardless of group structure and gear.
Right. Instead you just have to hunt the herbs, or an herbalist, down.
Or you could use the Auction house.
You could do the math on it if you want. I’m fairly confident Shield Slam will not out TPS Fury/Prot.
Mongoose works for Fury/Prot, too, by the way.
If they’re attacking before you have a bunch of aggro that’s one thing but if they’re just doing damage and pulling aggro off of you then that sounds like you’re failing as a tank.
The correct response would be to use a taunt. You seemed to confuse that with coming to the forums and making a thread.
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At 120 i hope you keep agro just one aoe. Well probably kill them with aura
I can outdps the dps guy that keeps on pulling aggro from the tank. When he pulls aggro and mobs come to him, he would waste his time and mana to save himself instead of doing dps. While he is on that, i am maintaining my steady low aggro but high dps.
Many dps people are dumb and they dont know that pulling aggro is making them inefficient in dps.
A good dps’er would throw DoTs/sting on 3 targets first while the tank is building aggro. After 2 to 3 sec, the good dpser throws high DPS AoE and still not pulling aggro then assist tank to target tank’s target and throw a single target dps nuke… still no pulling of mob becoz the tank is focusing on it… Then repeat the DoTs… I outdps’d level 60 dps people on BRD with my technique at level 56 as a Hunter despite of my weaker gear but efficient dps’ing.
It’s funny how the only legitimate good tank in this thread is also the one that doesn’t seem to be stressed out about losing aggro and is the only level 60 tank posting.
I’m telling you… It was dumb for some people to think they could level casually. You know what you get if you level casual? The casual players that don’t know how to play in group content.
Seen this a couple of times. One dps gets the aggro the healer runs out of mana and somehow the group survives then the dps goes and pulls more mobs while the healer is bottomed out. Wipes happens like this and I just vanish/feign death out.
As a healer if I see dps bashing their face into their keyboard while they have aggro I let them die. Pulling aggro happens, eventually you get better at gauging your threat. Knowing to stop is the key to being a good dps. I have to hope the other two dps and tank have the damage to kill the mobs. If I OOM on a dumb dps it’s a for sure wipe.
Be good at your job whatever it is and stop making other people’s jobs harder so you can pad.
HIgh crit means more rage from damage, which means more abilities, which means more threat.
The single easiest way to fix rage issues, particularly at the group level, is to crit a lot more, and 3% to crit on a prot tank(5% with stone) tends to have pretty tangible effects. And the rage you generate will be independent of your avoidance and armor and you lower the amount of healing required by having far better soak.
If you have to depend on stripping down to generate your rage, you’re doing it wrong.
Probably depends on their class/spec, really.
A hunter loses almost all of their DPS for being in melee (granted, they can just Feign Death, though).
A caster might struggle because of knockback.
A Rogue can probably maintain their DPS reasonably well even if they have aggro.
A Fury Warrior gains DPS from having aggro.
And many tanks are dumb, as well. It’s not exactly a quality specific to that role. If the tank is losing aggro, it’s their fault the DPS is being made less efficient as a result.
I agree, but there’s literally people in this thread calling the DPS bad for doing exactly that.
You were playing with lazy or bad players, then. Or you were playing with Ret Paladins, or something.
That said, Hunters are generally one of the stronger classes before gear, so maybe that’s why. /shrug
There’s been a few 60 tanks posting, actually. Or they have at least once or twice, anyway.
I’m not sure if I should be taking this as a compliment that I’m the tank you’re talking about, or an insult that I’m not the one good tank to which you refer. e.e
Then you’re a bad healer. You’re just wasting everyone’s time by not healing them and letting them die.
You’re going to have to resurrect them afterwards, and they’re going to continue doing it. They’re not going to “learn” to stop doing damage and pulling aggro, contrary to what every bad and lazy healer seems to think. They’re just going to call you a bad healer, because if you’re outright refusing to heal someone, you are.
You could just manage your mana better and that won’t happen.
Or the tank could do more threat and then you wouldn’t have to heal the DPS in the first place.
Padding is when you attack something that does not contribute to the success of the encounter, e.g. attacking mobs that despawn when the boss dies.
Doing more DPS and killing mobs faster is their job. That’s not padding.
Or… 20% chance to attack an additional time, which can also crit.
You tell me what generates more rage:
20% chance to attack an additional time, which can also crit
5% crit chance
You brought up mitigation and avoidance, and when I told you that wasn’t as important, you went right back to threat and rage generation, for which Windfury is objectively superior.
It’s independent of that if you use Windfury, as well.
You don’t strip down, buddy. That’s stupid.
You just start wearing DPS gear instead of tank gear, because you don’t need to mitigate or avoid damage as much.
If you’re stacking as much mitigation and avoidance as possible in a five man, you’re doing it wrong.
Silly druid, you’re not a tank.
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What I meant is I can outdps guys pulling aggros becoz they will have downtime saving themselves. If they did 1 sec or 3 sec of not dps’ing, that downtime sometimes is enough for me to outdps them. DPS Warriors should be tanking if they are pulling aggros. And if the DPS pulling aggro dies, that there is zero DPS, guaranteed, I could even face smash the damage meter on him.
A good dps’er should adjust if the skill of their tank is bad. Let’s say, I gave few seconds on tank to build aggro and still, I keep on getting aggro. I would be patient, give him more time to build aggro next time. After 5 sec of letting him build up his aggro, and I still keep on pulling the mobs, well, I will do the fights my way… lay Frost trap, AoE nuke mobs without waiting for the tank, nuke the mob that the tank is focusing while I kite the rest of the mobs. Then when the mobs I aggro comes near me, I feign death then continue nuking the Tank’s mob. The mobs I aggro should go back to the tank… I hope. When the Tank’s mob die, AoE nuke the group of mobs then focus on the next tank’s target mob while I kite them again. repeat. It would be chaotic but I will do my best to kill all the mobs without dying. It might be slow kill.
But if the tank says 1 mob at a time kill skull first, I would usually follow him as long as the rest of dps’ers do the same. But if I see the tank getting overwhelmed becoz it’s taking too long to kill mobs 1 at a time, I will save him from dying by AoE nuke the mobs pulling it out of him… kite the mobs while we kill them one at a time.
I carry groups. I carry PuGs. I can carry Tanks. 15 years of WoW gaming, this is a skill I’ve learned. BTW, I was a Naxx40 Vanilla raider with a DPS/Offtank Warrior. First to complete the full tier 0.5 gear set in my realm… you know it involves 45-min Baron run… I carry low geared people there… beating the timer. From this you could say I am experienced on Tank’s threat mechanics. But now, I play a Hunter in Classic. Let’s just say I became a Hunter in BC… my main ever since… up to now. I understand Tanks in Classic becoz I was once a hardcore tank in Vanilla.
If they can carry the group the way they do it, go ahead I dont care. There are many players who hate PuGing becoz they just give up becoz their strat wont work with PuGs. Me, again, I carry PuGs. Whether the tank is bad, whether the healer has weaksauce heals, whether the AoE dps’ers are trigger happy, I will do my best to make it work. And if I fail on keeping them alive, fine. I would just feign death. BTW, Frost Trap is a very good tool for PuGing. It helps AoE trigger casters to escape mobs. It helps tank to gain back aggro becoz he can easily get back the slowed mob that ran away.
Ever since I got feign death, I have never died on a dungeon… 5 Uldaman runs, 6 Zul farrak runs, 7 Maraudon runs, 6 Sunken Temple runs, 8 BRD runs and I am just level 56… some wipes but really I havent died yet. Maybe except on Lyceum of BRD where mechanics there shutdowns Hunters becoz of deadzone, pet aggro, cant trap becoz if I feign death to lay explosive trap, I would get aggro and die right there… freaking trap mechanics wasting my feign death. BTW, I am an M+10 player PuG’er. Mobs and Bosses in M+10 is having a hard time to kill me. I dont think normal Classic mobs would kill me.
I encountered lots of bad players during my whole 15 years WOW lifetime of PuGing. Yeah, I can easily outdps them. Even the better geared players who doesnt know the Threat/aggro mechanics, I outdps them… as they bring downtime on their DPS when they get aggro while I maintain my uninterrupted damage keeping my aggro controlled. At level 56, I mentioned how many runs I did in Maraudon and Sunken Temple… so you know I am geared from them. Plus 3x Beaststalkers on me, with 2x Black Dragonscale pieces… with the 3rd pc I am waiting to make at level 57, with gears I got from 8 BRD runs, I level slowly but nobody on greens on level 60 could outdps me easily. 
Anyone aiming to tank undead Stratholme over me is mega screwed, since I’m easily breaking 1300 AP all the way through that place. Without Salv, pulling aggro is virtually inevitable.
On the flipside, it’s not intentional. I just try to single target down casters while the tank builds threat on the heavier melee enemies.
There’s a reason they developed threat-meter addons in vanilla.