You’d know better than me. I don’t tank. I was just trying to say marking doesn’t have to take extra time.
I agree it’s a key part, and is a good suggestion overall. I’m just thinking either a different key like I use, or added to a move that doesn’t get spread around so much.
I almost forgot to respond to this, but I did feel it deserves a response.
What a condesending, stupid thing to say. We are clearing content so much faster now not because players now are good and players then were bad, but rather because players then went into it blind, and had to learn the mechanics through trial and error. Players now are leveraging that knowledge of mechanics, stat values, etc that were leaned back then to hone in on bis lists, tactics etc to produce faster results.
But make no mistake, today’s players are doing what they are doing now off of what was done by those players back in the day. You owe them better than this.
So what? I’m using arbitrary hypothetical numbers to articulate a point that building aggro is inconsequential if the threat you continue to generate afterwards does not exceed the threat generated by others.
It is, actually. For example, the reason you’re using Thunder Clap and Demoralizing Shout (assuming you don’t actually need to reduce your damage taken in a dungeon LOL) is to generate enough threat to hold aggro on those mobs so that the healer does not pull aggro off of you while you single-target down the other mob(s).
This is because your TPS on that target is much lower, or outright non-existent. Eventually, the healer will pull aggro by healing you. By using those abilities prior, you are creating a larger difference in threat so that is delayed, ideally to the point that the mob actually dies before it happens.
However, if you continue to generate more threat to those mobs than the healer (or DPS) are dealing to it, you will never lose aggro.
You only need to generate any amount of threat to be present on the threat table. You’ll need to continue generating threat, or you will lose aggro.
The amount you generate before DPS start attacking does not matter unless you are incapable of exceeding their threat generation.
You could literally just walk in, Bloodrage, Demoralizing Shout, then start single-targeting, and you’d hold aggro just fine as long as your TPS is higher than the DPS’s.
That doesn’t matter at all, though.
TPS is just the collective amount of threat generated each second. How much threat each ability generates per point of damage dealt does not suddenly turn TPS into something else.
Haha, sure, buddy.
Condescending, sure. Stupid? Not really.
It’s accurate.
Having that knowledge makes us better players, though.
If it makes you feel better to say “we know more about the game” instead of “we’re better,” feel free.
If you mean the modern theorycrafting is compounded onto the theorycrafting from vanilla, sure, but most of the strategies employed these days vary wildly from the ones from vanilla, which is why we have people like the OP complaining about losing aggro and people saying things like:
Whereas now days, that is completely unnecessary and sub-optimal.
which we already went over can be resisted. and then clothies get one shotted by a trash mob… because they have zero surviability… which they should have…
moving the goal posts. again… and trying to disregard already discussed mechanics in and effort to save face… getting sad at this point.
Did I not already point this out to you?
It’s the other way around, dps need to learn to manage threat; it’s part of the gameplay. So learn to play; because I would just let them die if they want to tank in their leather or cloth; since the dps is too dumb to learn to focus and download a threat meter addon
I’m going to pose this philosophical question. If Enhancement Shaman and Ret Paladins are expected to respec or reroll because their damage isn’t good enough.
Shouldn’t the same be expected of tanks who can’t generate enough threat?
1 Like
Because they are “Bads”?
Only reason I can think of. Most likely they are too busy watching their E-peen meters to actually care about what’s happening in the dungeon or raid.
After all, for most damage-dealers (especially those who learned in Retail) the numbers mean WAY more than actually worrying about game play or mechanics. Can’t count the number of Mages I have seen who won’t throw a Remove Curse because it would decrease their E-peen numbers a bit.
My advice to you? Just let them tank whatever they pull from you. After the first couple of deaths they may learn. If not, then limp along as best you can through the dungeon and make a mental note that they are bad players and move on. 
Thanks.
I dont think DPS think this honestly, Ive heard more DPS complain that tanks cant hold aggro during their basic rotation. I think what both roles fail to understand is that tanking is harder in Classic.
My policy when tanking is simple. If you strip a mob off me, then you can tank it.
If a tank’s taunt get resisted, the next tank in line taunts.
Trust me, bud, the clothies should not be dying to Annihilators. If they are, the tanks in your raid are slacking.
I don’t think you know what that means.
The only time this is an issue is on threat reduction fights like Onyxia, and even then, the tanks should be dealing more than enough threat for the DPS to go all out and not pull aggro.
They’re not expected to reroll, though. They just aren’t invited, is all.
Also, the issue with tanks not being able to generate enough threat is not an issue with their class/spec; it’s an issue with the player, most likely.
Enhancement and Retribution do not do poor damage because of bad players; they do poor damage because the specs are bad.
If you’re letting the DPS who pull aggro just tank the mob, you’re a bad tank and there’s literally no reason for you to be in the group.
The entire point of your role is to hold aggro. If you cannot manage that, they might as well just replace you with an actual DPS.
That’s because the meter is the only metric by which they can rate their performance.
Their role is all about dealing damage. Of course a damage meter is important. Even if you uninstall the damage meter, they’re still going to play the same way, because the mobs obviously die faster as a result.
I agree this is annoying. There’s a lot of curses that don’t really do much, to be fair, though. “Deals X damage after 60 seconds.” You don’t need to dispel that mid-fight.
Translation: don’t do your job. This is like telling the healers not to heal people who pull aggro.
If you want a terrible run, this is how you get one.
Funny, I was actually thinking the same thing. They’ll learn you’re a bad tank and take note to never play with you again.
It’s harder than retail, sure, but it’s not so hard that you can’t hold aggro if a DPS is going all out.
Then you’re not a tank. You’re just a DPS with worse damage.
Nope, no trust to strangers.
you might think they are trying, but chances are they are just practicing their optimal rotation.
1 Like
My policy as a healer is get you replaced.
People are going to pull off of bad tanks. And even with good tanks, a few lucky crits can pull a mob off.
But regardless, with 1.12s threat mechanics, if you can’t tank single target for your DPS, you need to either look into what you’re doing wrong and how to correct it, or play a different role. We shouldn’t be able to pull off of you in most situations.
I think a lot of the problem is the current warrior meta and a lot of people who don’t understand it. No, you don’t have to be prot, but make sure you understand what weapon and ability choices are best for building and maintaining threat. You’re not there to do damage, you’re there to make sure the people who are good at damage can do as much as possible.
LMFAO go play retail if you’re too dump to realize that its the DPS’s job to manage their threats; its the reason why threat meter addons were created for vanilla and never continue after TBC. You cant go guns blazing putting out all your powerful abilities without waiting for the tank to generate enough threat on mobs. If you want to play as a dps without learning to manage your threat then gtfo of classic and go play retail. It’s stupid how many idiots have that same dumb mindset, that think threat is generated at the same amount as in retail and start aoeing like crazy before the tank can even generate enough threat on the 2nd mob.
Here I’ll find a source off wow head so to prove my point.
“Therefore, the higher a tank’s TPS is, the higher a party/raid’s DPS can be. You may hear the phrase “wait for 5 sunders to DPS” tossed around in order to ensure a DPS will not rip aggro off a tank at the start of an encounter.”
Threat is such a big issue that alliance has an advantage cuz of pally and salvation.
1 Like
It’s pretty basic to understand. DPS gets aggro gets beat on, healer uses up more mana to keep them up because they’re losing chunks of health faster than the tank the healer goes oom quicker. So DPS shouldn’t go and try and get aggro.
1 Like
From the sound of it you havent been playing much classic have you? The problem I’ve been seeing that most tanks are facing in classic is when its a group pull, the warrior charges in or shot the mob over, less than 3 seconds later you start seeing blizzard or lock’s fire aoe ability or the hunter going all out at the mob before it even gets to the warrior(not enough time to generate threat onto the mob).
This is where it comes down to if a person is a good dps or not, I can still pull either 1st or 2nd as dps without ever getting whack. As a dps you need to know which spells generate too much threat and which doesn’t; I don’t get how this very thing is so hard for many understand nowadays as compare to back in vanilla.
And what I’m seeing in most of those situations is a thunderclap which is awful for threat, it’s primarily for damage reduction. If you know you have an AoE group, your first 2-3 abilities after charge should be battle shout. If all 3 dps are AoEing, that’s going to be most of what you do on every pull. AoE is going to pull off the tank, period. Get used to that now if you plan of clearing any of the raids or stratholme. AoE is a part of those, time matters, and if you can’t handle it, you wipe. Your job is to keep everything as long as possible so that when you lose it, it’s dead before it’s out of the AoE. 3 seconds SHOULD be more than enough time to start casting Blizzard. That should be 2 battle shouts and a decent lead on threat.
But that’s what we did 13 years ago during the actual 1.12. Not sure about today.
Shout just as bad as thunderclap, best way to aoe tank as a warrior is to charge in, blood rage, sunder & tab to switch target so you get threat onto all of them. Then every so often you you switch and sunder along with getting at least 2 sunder onto the main target before stacking up more sunders on the other mobs. I rarely use thunder clap if I tank since its a waste of rage and I would rather use that rage on shield block to get a revenge that is only 5 rage and cause a lot of threat.
OK, so when you’re on Onyxia and the whelps spawn when she takes off, let me know how well that tab sundering works out for you. 
Battle shout is less threat than sunder, but it’s threat on everything. You NEED that initial AoE threat or you’re losing everything. As easy as Ony is, you don’t have time to wait for your tanks to get single target threat on every whelp before you start.
1 Like