There is too much selfishness in your statement. This is game, not “me me me” real world.
Edit: You know, to each their own. I’ve been unhappy with tanks that charge and so I don’t let it happen in the grps I make. You and others are happy about it. I’d rather make a grp melee and spell cleave than pay for it. The active experience is so much better.
And you know, I’ve found that I actually meet interesting players and have fun.
Time is money, friend.
yeah it’s a game so i’m not gonna treat it as a chore and run ungrateful players who have absolutely no intention of benefiting me run dungeons i dont need to clear for free while they call anyone but themselves entitled.
I think you lose the ground to call other people selfish when you legitimately think everyone should be willing to drop more productive ventures in favor of doing your dungeon because you need something.
Do you own any mirrors or did you throw them all out because they perpetuate a false sense of beauty?
Who said anything about “dropping other productive ventures”. Some tanks have argued that charging for runs is the only way for them to make gold. Clearly I don’t buy this (professions don’t exist.) Duoing DM isn’t a thing. There are no guides on how tanks can make gold. Those tanks aren’t being forced into tanking those dungeons.
This is like HR departments exploiting employees by not being transparent about their payment models. I mean, they people actually need jobs.
It’s a video game.
I don’t mind loosing ground in your eyes.
It’s ironic isn’t it? I remember a group asking for a UBRS key, I said “10g if I have to travel, free if you summon.” The guy sperged out on me thinking I should just hearthstone to Kargath, navigate the endless Alliance zerg raids south of Kargath, then make my way back to Kargath just so I could get back on a flightpath and go back to Felwood ganking people. Yeah sorry, if I’m going to allocate 20 minutes to opening a door when you won’t summon me the least you can do is have everyone trade you a gold in the dungeon then paying me for my time because you were too dumb to make sure you had a key in party before forming.
Especially since I went through the hassle of spamming LBRS and doing the questline to build the key in the first place. If I’m in BRM or BRD or in the general vicinity I’ll do it free because it’s no loss to me, but spending 20 minutes when I’m across the world for nothing just isn’t happening.
yes if you don’t have a friend who’s online to duo DM with you or don’t have any rare or expensive recipes then yes selling tanking services is the most profitable thing a tank can do.
i mean if a tank is advertising they are looking for work and they are upfront with not rolling against people on gear and give their price, how isn’t it transparent?
Since we are at this point! I am staring at your post with stars in my eyes. You charge them.
boo hoo you ran a dungeon in the game.
this doesn’t make you special.
That sentence was an example of one entity taking, what I consider ( and you probably don’t care), an immoral stance towards another because of a life necessity. Transparency wasn’t the main point I was trying to make.
Edit: In noway have I stated that tanks are being deceitful. Even though, in my experience, some have been.
Seriously, that BoE epic that drops and is worth a lot of gold: you get it because you are the tank and it’s not an upgrade for anyone else.That recipe that is not a direct need but is hard to come buy you auto get it.
In all seriousness, it’s not that this can’t be done. It’s that it undermines the spirit of the entire game. People may not be able to articulate why, but they feel it, and that’s why they react negatively.
Of course you can offer to tank for cash, and some people will pay you. But it says a lot about you and how you play. That is why you’re noted and put on ignore - my game time is for fun, not to be forced to deal with mercenary little opportunitists who forgot or never knew the point of playing with others.
For me, it’s a nice self-filter. So please keep spamming chat with your offers. It saves me a lot of time.
it’s immoral to give other players option?
yes it is.
“it undermines the spirit of the game but i cant explain to you why”
what? how does it “undermine the spirit of the game” any more than professions charging money or mages selling ports/water? sounds like you’re just upset for the sake of being upset if you literally cannot express why.
You express the feeling better than me. I’d actually pay you.
Well considering anyone in a serious guild already has their professions taken, very few being lucrative. For example needing to be an armorsmith as a tank doesn’t offer you much gold unless you sit on a mountain of resources you might be able to fashion into something. As well as engineering where the only productive thing to craft is Sapper Charges, but the prices have mostly fallen to where it’s a couple silver profit per craft.
And they could be duoing DM instead, but now you have less availability on your tanks.
The only tanking specific means to make gold revolve around doing dungeons. Even duoing DM you’re better off in efficiency running as a dps spec with a healer because things die significantly quicker, which results in less durability loss from general wear and tear of gear, as well as more runs in an hour.
Correct, they aren’t. Which is why they choose to sell the service of tanking if they do not need anything obligating them to go into there like a specific piece of gear. They are tanking for a service of their own volition which benefits you much more than if they were just not doing it.
You think I sold m10 carries on retail and AOTC kills on Argus because I needed things from there? No, I did it because I literally had zero reason to go into Antorus while bringing dominant DPS of 2.1-2.2 million. Unless I was incredibly bored and joined “Friendship Bird Runs” just to kill time, I had no purpose to visit Antorus so I was going to make it worth my time because I have better things to do with my free time than charity work in a video game. I give more than enough to charity as it is with 40 dollars of every paycheck religiously without using it for a tax write off.
Yeah I could decipher your political leanings from your above points, I really don’t need you injecting your BS about “livable minimum wage” in a thread where it has no place. However just for the sake of argument: A job only exists because it is more benefit to the company to employ you in terms of bottomline. The second you don’t offer your employer any benefit to having you and actually begin to cost resources, why would they bother dealing with you further?
If I ran a hotdog stand for the sake of argument, I could staff it with just myself and pocket whatever profits I had entirely to myself. However if I decided I wanted more free time, I would hire somebody and pay them a wage. Or I would think “Oh well now I can get another and we can operate two” Largely because I’m valuing the free time more than what I am losing monetarily to pay them. However if them being employed cost more than the perceived value of the transaction I.E they wanted more money than what I felt the value of keeping them around was, their employment will be terminated.
You’ll be hard pressed to find a job that employs people who either bring a net zero, or a net negative to the company. Nobody honestly thinks “Oh, I will give you my resources to do something so you can make money too but you get to keep all of it.”
Yes, one I play in my free time which I value very much. The last thing I’m going to do is squander a precious resource like free time for a net zero or in some cases a net negative benefit. Everything has value to somebody and nobody will engage in a transaction that results in a loss to them if they know what’s good them.
If I’m going to spend my free time to benefit you, then my doing so better benefit me as well because if it doesn’t, my involvement just isn’t happening. If I had no gear and was in a guild that continuously disenchanted items I wanted or needed, I wouldn’t stick around.
Profession buyer- has done zero work.
Profession seller- has done all the work in leveling profession, and the sole benefit of selling to you is making gold.
Mage port/food buyer- has done zero work.
Mage- has leveled, learned class skills, sole benefit is again making gold.
Party members of tank- are doing damage so the group gets through dungeon faster, or is healing so tank doesn’t die.
Tank- is tanking, the third role, and gains a 1 in 5 chance at any valuable loot dropping.
Notice the difference? If you’re buying a crafted item, or something from a mage, or getting a rogue to open some boxes for you- you’re getting a benefit from their work that you’ve done nothing for.
If you’re tanking- unless it’s a carry, they’re doing part of the work towards finishing a dungeon. Now, if you’re charging and you tell the others in the party just to follow along for drops/xp, that’s another story because then you are doing all the work.
Nobody’s going to stop you from charging to tank regardless- people complaining about it isn’t going to stop those that want to pay for a tank from buying your services.
Provided you’re being honest anyway- last time a tank went to the forums complaining about complainers, it fairly quickly came out that he wasn’t telling people upfront that he was charging them (first orb in Live Strat I believe was the topic rather than a gold fee- though, that’s about a 40’ish gold fee per run, so hefty)- because nobody was joining if he said he was reserving first orb, and so he started not telling them until they reached the instance.
So- definitely don’t do that, just in general be upfront about any charges/reserves- nobody wants to get to a dungeon and be told you’re reserving something- and I guarantee if you pull that you’ll get slammed in world chat over it, and deservedly.
thread was never about tanks who are unscrupulous and use bait and switch advertising to get people to join a group before saying something or other is on reserve though? yeah that’s a perfectly valid complaint but that’s not what the thread is about, just tanks selling the service in general.
what you don’t understand is that when people pay a tank, it’s usually for the convenience of not having to wait for one. i’m sure if they could find a tank who’d need to do the dungeon for gear and wouldn’t charge, they’d take them over a guy doing it for money.
You answered your own question.
i didn’t answer my own question though, unless you are just upset for the sake of being upset? you’re just using super subjective reasoning and terms like “spirit of the game” which are open to literally any interpretation and then outright say you can’t articulate why you think the way you do. i dont put huntards on ignore who sell DM tribute loot or mara runs even though they’re being opportunists