ive never lost in wow
Thatâs simply because ofâŚHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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Wow. This post demonstrates exactly why it ISNT a map issue and moreso a player issue.
From reading your description, this sounds like that the horde actually know how to strategize and use tactics or something.
If the average horde pugs knows both how to defend and simultaneously launch an effective offense, then its not the map then, its the player and meta.
Back in Vanilla and early Classic, Alliance were using a very different meta by exploiting their own advantages. Exact same map, but different strats.
So if the map was the exact same since vanilla, then how is it the fault of the map that players develop a strat thatâs very effective?
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This map/scenario was only in place for a couple months before BC started, there wasnât enough time for a full fledged meta to develop.
Completely different scenario.
And there wasnât a major imbalance in queue times, so both sides just did a âboss rushâ strategy when AV 1.12 dropped.
Thats true.
The solution would be the bring back an earlier version of AV. With land mines and trolls. that way, the rush to SHGY is a death trap
Gonna stop you right there. The map is identical as the one from 1.8-1.12. The ONLY difference is the number of NPCs and the power of the NPCs.
Not last weekend they didnât.
Every game alliance tried to take IBGY, Horde reinforced from superior tunnel GY. Every game alliance tried to take SFGY, Horde turtled and alliance reverts to rep farm.
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I have ranked on both sides and can explain it. Iâll try to keep it brief tho. Alliance have simply donât care to win AV. Q times have forced horde to be tryhard. Horde rankers have to play 2-3x as many hours to rank so they really care about every game. Horde pugs fight back, alliance do not. With instant Qâs, AV isnât good HPH for alliance rankers. Alliance rankers have better HPH spamming WSG as a 10 man or AB as a 15 man. The best HPH for horde is to have a 10 man and triple weave all 3 BGs at the same time. So Every AV will have a hanfull of hardcore horde rankers whereas alliance will be mostly PVE players who want the rep to PVE with. Coming from a rank 13 horde and rank 11 alliance working on 14 currently
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I think you need to go back and play it again, you have 0 idea what youâre talking about.
Go scroll up and read what Hawne said, itâs pretty accurate.
itâs not complicated. people broke it down many times. racials are a minimal factor⌠its the map.
look at the win loss. seriously. any horde defending it is just dense. its been broken down over and over again, so ill just leave it at that.
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Exactly this!
The best way to understand AV and why ally lose is, imagine a boxing match ok but your opponent gets the first free hit. Youâre now dinged and the round starts, you have to make a move in reaction to what has been done. Instead of both sides picking a strategy , the alliance start off being forced to react. It kinda makes it an uphill battle the rest of the game in which they give up.
Call this whatever you want but at the end of the day one side is gifted an easy time while the other has to work much harder. Until youâre the side working harder to overcome the hole you start in itâs not really worth debating with horde.
The map like much of WoW suffers from horde bias.
Results for BGs is probably around this:
WSG - 50:50 or pretty close
AB - 50:50 or pretty close
AV - 99:1 - horde:alliance win rate
It has nothing to do with how hard horde try or racials. Yes the true win rate of AB/WSG may tilt slightly towards horde, but those maps are pretty close to fair mirror maps.
The issue is the AV map and specifically the cave respawn granting 2x as many rezzers as well as close proximity to IB GY.
If youâre horde and donât understand it, just wait until you get an AV game where alliance tries to take IB GY.
Then go defend IB GY with a group of 15-20; you will have 3-4 rezz attempts to wipe alliance offensive. You can easily chip away and kill off any alliance offensive in that time frame. And by then, your offense should have secured SH GY. The game is effectively over.
If Blizzard is going to balance AV, they must make it so that the teams cannot respawn in the cave until all GYs are lost on the field.
If horde rezzed at FW GY instead of the cave, alliance would only have to hold off 2-3 waves of 10 rezzers from a much farther distance at IB GY.
The game would be winnable. I also wouldnât be opposed to adding a 2-3 second delay to the horde gate opening so that alliance could meet horde closer to the middle of the map. That would simulate moving the cave south as was done in later expansions.
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This thread is out of control! 
2 winsâŚand im on the final path to exalted. I try to win every match. Something doesnât seem right about that. Yeah itâs the afk leechers that cause i say 1/4 of the problem and 1/4 is demoralized behavior due to consistent losing streaks. The last half is terrible map design.
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Well there are some factors
1: distance the map advantage, by the time you reach stonehearth graveyard horde has as well. If everyone has the carrot, 100% speed mount, riding skill, and the mythril spurs for a total of ~115% mount speed you might escape the zug. Get past horde before they can get to you and force the game into a cap/backcap contest.
2: rep farmers who afk. This is good for the person who can get maybe ~8 rep per kill counting turn ins. Not for everyone else who knows best rep is when everyone is killing. (had about 5k hk by the time av was maxxed rep).
3: Not enough prep: paladin buffs, use them most of the games are won by whomever has the better stuff if the horde cannot turtle near the flag maintain a melee attack until flag is taken and bottleneck the advantage is lost. If the zug at stonehearth is broken it is no longer a cave race and without a turtle near the grave given by the pre-tbc map it turns into a game more like AB but with capping graveyard flags. The horde advantage is being able to turtle near stonehearth is gone and the game becomes sort of symmetrical at this phase. Almost the alliance and horde are both near the penultimate flag from there cave though there is a drop damage.
4: attitude: aside from pvp r14 people the attitude is more rep->decent gear(ring/off hand)->raid stuff on alliance. And rep->decent gear->raid stuff->more pvp on the horde, at least for AV. There is a loop of people on horde who want av when the gear isnât better not so much on alliance. The don rings are great.
(note the av I remember was the one with reinforcements, aka a cap and backcap contest, zerging the enemy base was a sure way of losing especially on the bridge, if the horde/alliance did zerg without buffs as I did some horde back in the day people would get pissed if you didnât stay in a group, as well people didnât have 100% mount speed on 50-59 brackets in tbc/wrath so differences in top geared players against a mid 50s char are much smaller than in classic.)
the ring is BiS and the quiver is next best thing next to the hunter quest one, offhands are nice for casters but not needed per say
I thought maybe Alliance just sucks but I win at least 50% of my AB games vs other pugs.
The bases should be rotated every game.
Back in Vanilla my guild used to run AV with teamspeak and we would basically form a raid group that was set up to take down the horde end bosses. Ride past everything else and get into their base take the GY maybe take down the two towers there and go in and take down their bosses. We had the correct number of tanks, heals, and we were geared for it. I have done that on both factions and yes it is easier to win due to the map and racials on the Horde side, it is not however impossible for the alliance to win but they have to basically go for the long attack take the base defend it rez folks at that base and force them to fight in a manner that they are not used to.