When you swap to your horde from your alliance, do you suddenly “git gud”? It is literally the same player base. Alliance don’t get worse when they swap from horde any more than you suddenly get better when you swap to horde. Having the “alliance bad horde good” excuse for a crappy map doesn’t change it from being a crappy map.
So join a premade, you’re complaining about and giving up on pugs while complaining about complainers and those who give up in pugs. In AV are you winning when you’re on your Alliance? You’re an Alliance player at that point, Horde seem to think we can just enter AV and decide to win and we will.
You’re basically showing the exact same mindset- you couldn’t win, so you gave up. Which is fine- but if you’re going to give up on AV, and from the sounds of it every Horde that ‘also has an Alliance 60’ and seemingly knows all these sure fire ways to win AV as Alliance… can’t win AV as Alliance, and gives up and stops queuing for AV as Alliance. If you’re going to give up on it, why are you acting like you’re superior to everyone else that has given up on it?
You couldn’t design a map that was more in favor of the Horde. It’s horribly imbalanced and practically a free with for any team that isn’t lobotomized.
The Horde can both defend ICBY and take SHGY at the same time. If there are 4-6 people defending IBGY and it’s attacked guess what? Horde who die up by SHGY will now be defending IBGY. It’s a very short run from the cave where they spawn to IBGY so defense is ready quickly. Same isn’t true with Alliance who have to walk considerably further to defend and much longer for offense. It takes the Horde only a few seconds less than the Alliance to get to SHGY.
Map design is just terrible.
3 Likes
To be honest, it’s more attitude than anything that prevents Alliance from winning more AVs. One of the big cancers of the classic community is a min-max culture and it bleeds over into pvp. What I mean by this is players will want to maximize their honor (or rep) in the most efficient way possible. If this means intentionally losing or (worse) going afk in a BG and not participating, then so be it. As long as the min-maxxer gets their best HPH or rep per hour.
I can agree that maybe a small contributor to this defeatist mindset is the map imbalance, but I think that’s a shallow look at the whole picture. In my mind, it’s the non-contributors and the people focused on attaining as much rep as possible in as short amount of time as possible.
The problem is exacerbated by an impassive, apathetic company that struggles on a daily basis to communicate with their player base and punish people that are making the game worse for others. The lack of GM activity to punish players that don’t participate in BGs encourages others to not participate and reap the (slow) rewards while doing nothing and fearing no action to be taken against them.
If you want this to change, Blizzard must 1) punish non-contributing pvpers on a more regular basis and 2) communicate with the player base that action is constantly being taken against this behavior. This acts as a deterrent and with the increased action being taken against afkers, you will see a drastic change in player behavior.
But just my 2 cents, I could be wrong.
2 Likes
What it boils down to is the desire for the highest HPH, which unless AV is a <10 minute race, is vastly better in the other 2 BGs.
Which again ignores 1.12 AV during vanilla, when the map and content within were identical. When this is brought up, the “sCoRcHeD eArTh!” foolishness is invoked, when that “meta” is purely a case of horde gobbling up what alliance has no interest in defending. The horde “meta” was ALWAYS to take what they can, while the alliance “meta” has devolved into defeatism. The horde did not collaborate and scheme to create a “meta”, they are just playing the BG and taking what objectives they can, and alliance serves it up on a silver platter time after time.
1 Like
I have read the patch notes… have you?
cause that is no where close to what is in them.
Hmm that’s odd I remember winning fairly regularly in AV as horde in vanilla…
Also as others have said the situation in vanilla was completely different, gear disparity was much greater and understanding of game mechanics was abysmal and hardly ever abused to anywhere near the level that the average player does now.
also still waiting on how you beat an IBGY defense?(skipping it just makes the problem worse btw)
1 Like
“Fairly regularly” =/= Higher win %
Wait what? Alliance always loses during the AV weekend, and 50-50 rate outside it.
It’s been the complete opposite in my experience. The alliance have a 100% loss rate outside of AV weekend; I’m saying that with no exaggeration too. Outside of AV weekend, I have not lost an AV since 2019 when the Drek rush was changed.
The alliance in my battle group don’t try for anything other than rep each game.
Once AV weekend hits, all the helmets use AV to honor cap and the alliance actually attempt to win the AVs. This results in about a 50% win rate for them. Conversely, during AB and WSG weekends, the alliance in my battle group avoid those for the sake of avoiding horde premades. For example, during this current WSG weekend my premade has been rolling PuGs 90% of the time in WSG, but AB has been almost 90% alliance premades. I’ve just concluded that the alliance honor grind meta is to avoid PvP as much as possible to soak up easy honor.
Even on AV weekend, the tankers still don’t use AV to cap.
Not sure where all this fake info comes from. The rankers still get better HPH in way or ab doing full pre-mades.
I know the rankers on my server, some of them are on there 2nd and 3rd rank 14s, and NONE of them do AV, even if it’s AV weekend.
Strange, I’ve been always joining against premades during the event and against pugs outside of it.
because you’Re alliance and alliance always lose AV on the AV weekend.
Alliance win more often in AV weekend than non-AV weekend. That said, it’s still not a high %. The normal 5% win rate gets bumped to maybe 10-15%
2 Likes
I didn’t say all rankers do AV, I said we’ll actually see them in AV during the bonus honor weekend. It’s not false information; it’s anecdotal based on what I saw this past AV weekend and the AV weekend prior to that one compared to all the AVs in between the bonus honor days. I can only speak for the alliance that I encounter in games as a horde player.
Also keep in mind that I’m judging it based on my AV games. For every AV I play, an alliance player will get into 5 or more just because of queue times. In my 3 or 4 AVs per day during an AV weekend, about half of them will losses. I’m sure that 20+ AVs an alliance player does will come out to a different win rate.
Like I said, I can only speak for the alliance I see inside of bgs. This WSG weekend in particular has been overwhelmingly matches against PuGs.
The odd thing is, alliance stopped the “Drek Rush” because premades were done away with. Was it such a complicated plan that non premades cannot do it?
It’s ok no one will have to worry about AV much longer, come the 28th horde gonna have 4 hour ques rofl.
Imagine being alliance and queing AV and getting 300 rep an hour.
42,000 rep needed, yea I don’t see 99% of the Alliance player base queing for that trash.
That’s 140 AV games at 300 rep a Game, but I doubt alliance even get 300 a game.
That’s around 93 hours of AV losses for an Alliance player to now get exalted at 40 minutes a game.
Sounds fun!!
Yes, it’s incredibly tight and requires very good execution and gear to succeed, assuming horde run any interference.
It requires good coordination, a good team comp of at least 5-6 healers and 1-2 tanks, a good leader with experience, and everyone on 100% mounts with reasonable gear.
Even with all of those factors, a vast majority STILL managed to not have the winrate that horde currently enjoy other than the top tier full 40 man guild only premades.
In fact a lot of the more average premades started to run into the problem we have already outlined here. You try to zerg south and the horde start throwing bodies while capping SH and your reinforcements are spawning at SPGY eventually leading to a reset map (since unlike a pug, a premade is capable of retaking SHGY). At that point a lot of premades would either afk out or regroup and start over with a slow push taking IBGY/TP/IBT and just sitting and aiming for a slower 15-20 minute win.
I’ve noticed that alliance wins only outside AV weekend and only when I’m in resto spec. Otherwise, we lose.
Guess I’m the deciding factor.