Why do mythic raiders even get gear from the bosses? There is no harder content than that so no need for the gear they get from it. They have heroic raid gear and that gets them through the mythic raid so tell me what they need the gear for? What content is so hard they cant do it without mythic raid gear? There isn’t any … you want the gear because its better than what you have regardless if there’s content for it or not.
2 Likes
for personal goals? goals give people ways to continue playing the game and work towards.
that is like me saying if your not even competing for world first why are you even bothered sub to play? your casual at that point.
just because say me for example i play casual doesn’t mean i don’t want to stop progressing or trying to progress BUT at my own rate. unlike others some of us don’t have the liberty to simply play X amount of hours a day we work hard, work long hours, have real life stuff to deal with it’s not like we want to be casual were just forced into it or lose our lively hood over a game.
Yea. Because anyone can do chores. If those chores are tied into gear that is in any way competitive with end game gear, end game becomes obsolete. Also, it requires people to do these chores to continue being competitive with end game.
Dude. Just stop. Doing quests isn’t working for anything. You’re attempting to present intellectual dishonest arguments. The point that I made (which is 100% accurate and valid) is that you have the means to gear that is more powerful than the effort you expend in order to obtain that gear.
Period.
Hey… he also transformed into an OP bearform and killed a bunch of imps for a minute or two occasionally too.
That’s nothing compared to all the times he clicked a bell to decide someone’s fate in bastion!
As opposed to requiring people to do Mythics to be competitive? If we are going to bring up competition, we may as well discuss the poor state of competition right now.
Not a dude.
You began this conversation with your response to me.
I’m presenting my opinions, and I still haven’t heard why allowing casual players to obtain higher ilvl gear with the compromise of them taking longer to get it is bad for the community. You’re ignoring a ton of questions I’m presenting and accusing me of presenting dishonest arguments.
If you aren’t willing to engage in discourse, then why respond to begin with? You literally are recommending that casual players resort to pay-to-win tactics by purchasing high ilvl gear in the AH rather than letting casual players earn it through casual progression. How is that even an argument? I don’t understand and I’m looking for an explanation on how that is the solution.
1 Like
This is an interesting discussion.
I’ve said this in a few places, but what it really comes down to is the progression cycle. The fundamental core concept of any MMO is simple: You do content to get gear that enables you to do more difficult content. Whether it’s ‘being able to stand up to more geared pvp oppoents’ or ‘being able to complete harder M+ dungeons’ or ‘doing harder raid content’… the gear is part of the progression cycle.
Reputations, world quests, sanctums, anima… currently they don’t fit into that cycle. They’re just… the same thing over and over again without ever really changing or getting harder. There’s no progression of content. And without content progression, there’s no real need for gear progression.
Now I would be all for adding some method to GIVE content progression through solo means. Absolutely. Torghats is one such opportunity. They could make Torghast have a greater degree of difficulty scaling and offer gear through it. Sounds good. Or they could have covenants unlock scenarios that scale in difficulty… or something. Some form of a prestige system that makes the world harder so that world quests become more of a challenge…
But if they just say ‘well we’re just throwing the best gear in the game without tying it to progression’ it basically breaks the progression cycle, which is NOT good for the longevity of the game.
1 Like
I’ve already outlined for you why it’s bad for the community, and the community aside; it’s bad for the design of the game. You just refuse to accept it and it doesn’t matter because they aren’t going to implement this anyway so at this point, what’s the point? Even further, the ‘community’ of people who refuse to play the game the way it was meant to be played aren’t the ones who content is designed around.
It’s like you decided to level a character to max and then…do nothing with that character. I think your progression is just leveling characters. End game happens at max level. End game isn’t questing. Never has been, never will be.
I’ve engaged. I’ve told you that you’re wrong, and told you why you’re wrong. You know you’re wrong. Look at the next quote and allow me to show you again with your circular argument. Watch this.
Casual progression is covenant gear is has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. That is your casual progression for doing world quests and campaign quests.
Covenant gear. Is. Your. Casual. Progression.
Full stop.
If you don’t want to buy BOE’s, that’s all well and good. That said, it takes exactly as much effort to buy something off the AH as it does to do world quests.
You aren’t. I’ve explained this away a thousand times and you think you’re on to something when really…you’re just going to be using covenant gear.
I agree completely.
But why? Why couldn’t it be part of that cycle? Why can’t it break the mold? That’s the question I propose I guess. What is keeping the platform from adapting to allow diverse kinds of players to achieve loot through various paths? Is it tradition? Is it expectation? That’s what I’m curious about and respectfully challenge a change.
I also think that Mythics are pretty repeatable. They do get harder with higher level keystones, but there has to be a way to also allow solo/casual players to do harder content (we saw it in the mage tower and proving grounds).
Awesome. You already break the expectation many players have on the forums. 
I agree.
I 100% agree again.
I also agree. It’s a good thing that is not what I am proposing.
You haven’t outlined it at all. You’ve explained how it’s bad for Mythic progression players but the current situation is bad for casual players. I’m looking for a solution that benefits both, and all players.
I mean, I think that’s a rude way to approach a conversation, but I guess I can agree. I refuse to accept that the current system is the only feasible system when so many players are offering so many solutions (read above).
Why? I’m level 200. That isn’t doing nothing. I’m asking for more content that allows me to play casually without Mythics or Raids.
I know I’m right. And I know I’m more open minded than you.
You’re right. But it locks at 197, and I’m proposing it goes higher.
I’m proposing a change. No one has ever said that the change can’t happen because it doesn’t exist currently. That is how change works.
Your argument is based off of effort and prestige; higher level items should require more effort, right? That’s what you proposed above.
So if I can buy a high level item off the AH with as much effort as I can earn it through a world quest, why not allow me to earn it through a world quest? That accommodates your proposal that effort should be required and pokes a hole in your argument.
It also avoids the pay to win system that you proposed above where casual players should simply purchase high item level gear off the AH instead of earning it through diverse progression systems. It’s a win win.
You’ve tried to explain maybe once and did a poor job of it. I’m asking for clarification, having discourse, and you disagree. That’s fine. But you’re being salty about new progression for reasons I can’t seem to wrap my head around. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
2 Likes
I think the reason you get pushback is because when people hear ‘what is wrong with anima giving the best gear’ they think to themselves ‘I can get a few thousand anima a day without ever pushing myself. That doesn’t justify gear.’ And given the way these forums go… people tend not to read much further than that.
I also think that people have a hard time imagining a solo progression path that would actually be difficult enough to justify gear progression. Which creates further pushback.
What I hope for is that Blizzard will at least address the question of ‘is there any intent for solo/small group(2-3) players to have a meaningful progression path in this game?’ to some extent at Blizzcon… because I feel like it’s definitely something the game would benefit from. Even if it is hard to see how it could meaningfully work.
2 Likes
I hope Blizzcon offers some perspective on solo progression and casual progression but I’m hesitant to hope for that. This games mold has benefitted only a certain group of players for so many expansions now that it would be a drastic (but welcome) change for me.
1 Like
I think this would have been a great compromise. Random BG, you are scaled. Rated, fine, let gear matter more because you are actually having to form the group and will have control over who is in that group.
2 Likes
Ya, one of the bigger issues is definitely the casual BG gearing problem. So scaling gear in non-rated BGs would be a reasonable idea nonetheless.
2 Likes
Okay. One more time and I’m going to explain this again to you, but this time like I would for a small child.
World quest easy.
Just takes time.
Should not give good gear.
Because it’s easy.
It makes raiding/m+ not worth doing.
Those hard.
Those give good gear.
If good gear come from easy quest.
No one raid or do m+.
That’s all I’ve got for you.
There is no progression for people who play solo in an mmorpg. Your change is a terrible change because-----Read above.
Except you literally get rewarded for losing. You can afk your way through random bgs and get epics.
No. It’s a terrible idea that punishes people who put in the time and earned their gear. You are going to receive honor points whether you die 100 times in a bg or 0 times. So no, it’s not an issue whatsoever.
1 Like
The idea that people who aren’t interested in rated pvp only exist so that those who are interested in rated pvp and raids can wreck them is one I don’t support at all.
There’s no progression path for people who aren’t interested in rated BGs or high difficulty pve to be able to compete in casual BGs.
3 Likes
There is no competition in a game mode that rewards afk players.
Nah. They exist so bgs can happen. If you get to pick who gets to queue into a battle ground and put all these restrictions on gearing, you’re going to artificially F with the player pool with no reason other than you don’t like being killed in a random bg.
They provided you with progression via renown unlocks for unrated bg gear. Them’s the numbers.
I mean, I’m happy to gear up slowly in M+ myself. So I’m not speaking on behalf of myself.
I’m being compassionate and recognizign that certain groups of people currently lack a progression path. And they deserve to have fun too.
2 Likes
Torghast TC fills that niche now.
No, the same progression path is available to all players.
If people decide that they aren’t going to do group content for whatever number of excuses they give; fine.
They should understand and accept the fact that WoW end game is designed around group content. If they can’t cope with that, the only answer is to find something else to do with their time.
This is a bad faith argument. Why can’t the game be fun for people other than you?
For a long time, dungeons didn’t have a progression path. But the game is MUCH better for having Mythic+ be a thing that exists.
For a long time, arena didn’t exist. But, despite my dislike of arena personally, arena existing is definitely a positive for the game.
The game has attracted a lot of players for a lot of reasons. Every one of them deserves to have an environment that is fun for them. Right now, some are stuck in a place that is… not great. And I, for one, would be happy with it being fixed for them.
3 Likes