Why do you guys like old AV so much?

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Exactly.

Even in the Blizzard post justifying the use of 1.12 AV, they stated:

@Kaivax

Early on in AV, there were too many NPCs and they were too hard to kill. By 1.12, many had been removed and NPC health was brought down to a reasonable level

It’s just not a reasonable argument from anyone and that includes Blizzard. The justification doesn’t apply to the year 2019 with 1.12 classes and items. I wish people would stop arguing based on their experience and memories from 2005, and instead used logic; maybe we’d get Blizzard to recognize their folly.

The best argument for an earlier recreation of AV is to quote Blizzard’s own justification for their use of patch 1.12: “After careful consideration, we decided on Patch 1.12: Drums of War as our foundation, because it represents the most complete version of the classic experience.”

The version of AV they chose does not represent the most complete version of AV. It’s a trimmed down version with less content.

[Abigaiil-tichondrius (Abigaiil)]

I agree - they know what people think about this, and have known for a long time.
Unfortunately, they are beta testing the watered down version.

Toss in layering and I am not sure if I want to invest the time into the game.

[Tman-zuljin (Tman)]

So the reason why they are going with 1.12 AV is because npcs were like bosses? Maybe they think players need a safe zone in the middle of the BG too… That’s weak. All that was half the fun! You couldn’t just ride past a group of npcs and the bowman would tare you a new one in a couple seconds and that was just amazing.

Bum rushing bases isn’t AV, especially since 99% of the time alliance will win since they can instantly cap the horde GY at base.

Old AV is what made AV last couple days, or even a week. It was absolutely AMAZING for rep farming (looting and turning things in), actually team work / real PvP battles in bunkers and graveyards.

Hopefully they will revert back their idea. I and most do not want soft, weak, nerfed to crap content, if people did… they’ll just play BFA.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

• the NPC’s were very hard to kill
• we spent something like 3 hours fighting over that graveyard.
• I still remember drawing aggro from Korrak and how frustrating it was having him run up and wipe your group just as you were making headway.
• The flight masters. The quest was something that really only a druid or rogue could do because you had to sneak all the way behind enemy lines.
• imagine a Wyvern swooping down, picking you up, and throwing you.
• mindless PvPing for hours on end
• If you were a caster you were standing there AOEing non stop. If you were a healer you were just looking at your raid frames trying desperately to keep people alive.

It’s incredible that literally EVERYTHING you listed as a negative are things I miss about AV.

[Dariush-proudmoore]

It’s incredible that literally EVERYTHING you listed as a negative are things I miss about AV.

Yeah like I said I don’t really want to disparage anyone who likes older versions. Everyone has their own thing that they enjoy and I get why people are upset. I’m just happy because we are getting my favorite version.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Personally I’m not sure of the when each specific version was which. But pre-nerf the match was more a battle of attrition rather than zerg.

1.12 (important to note tests were lvl 58 not 60 with gear) offers an experience similar to modern day WoW AV, where the best course of action is to ignore the other faction as you run past each other on the field of strife and then play some weird form of MDI where you try and out PvE the other team by being slightly quicker to kill the last boss.

It essentially takes the PvP out of the PvPvE encounter.
By forcing roadblocks making NPCs more substantial instead of just speed bumps you open up more opportunity for player engagement. It becomes meaningful to attempt to wipe a group during the Ballinda or Galv encounter for example.

It also slows down the pace, so gathering scraps etc for the various AV turn ins can take place. This can also force PvP combat as you know the enemy has to deal with Lokh for example, that means you know you can meet the enemy there and force them back off Lokh to assist his push.

It just feels more fleshed out to me. The “rush” strat just typically plays by the rules of “ignore 50% of the content and just do this” which while effective, defeats a lot of the purpose of this “epic” bg.

[Williams-akama (Williams)]

You can say that for thr dungeons and taids that shipped before Naxxramas as well.

Its not so hard that it would turn people away, but again players tend to forget that numerous gear and class upgrades in addition to direct nerfs to the content greatly reduce the vanilla experience down to a catch up to NAXX and TBC phase of game play; because thats kinda what the last 3 patches were intended to do.

[Irisse-maelstrom]

How much stronger were the NPCs in early AV compared to what they are on 1.12?

In early AV there were scores of NPCs mostly scattered around the field of strife but also throughout the rest of the battlefield.

That’s like saying you can just do BWL on BfA and get essentially the same thing.

Am I missing a max level (120) version of BWL on live? 'Cos I’d definitely go for that over mermaids.

The difference between 1.12 and retail is that you have a choice. If you do not want to rush it was still possible in 1.12 to defend and stop the rush.

You can still do that in retail.

[Dariush-proudmoore]

You can still do that in retail.

The difference between 1.12 and retail is huge.

[Aedah-duskwood]

The TL;DR version of my answer is simply this.

I don’t like that there is even a chance of a “race” to a win and it being over in less than 20 minutes.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

Am I missing a max level (120) version of BWL on live? 'Cos I’d definitely go for that over mermaids.

The BWL experience would be vastly different from 1.12 even if there was a level 120 version of it. 1.12 AV and BfA AV are not:

essentially the same thing.

Did 1.12 AV have Goblin Gliders?
Did 1.12 AV have Demon Hunters?
Did 1.12 AV have Rogues with Shroud of Concealment?
Did 1.12 AV have NPC scaling?

What players bring into the battleground becomes part of the experience.

[Eopoo-anetheron]

AV is frustrating and boring. It doesn’t matter which version is in.

[Ànguss-moon-guard (Ànguss)]

I’m betting that if they created both the garbage nerfed version they are doing and the real AV (original 1.5 version) that the real AV would be by far the more popular of the two.

[Dariush-proudmoore]

I’m betting that if they created both the garbage nerfed version they are doing and the real AV (original 1.5 version) that the real AV would be by far the more popular of the two.

For a month or two. Until people got bored with it and the queues ended up being 8 hours long and eventually it never popped anymore.

[Kungfopanduh-thrall (Kungfopanduh)]

I personally prefer 1.12 AV so I can get exalted and be done, but we should get a chance to experience the original AV.

[Fateweaver-misha (Fateweaver)]

Those 24 hour games that people talk about so fondly actually sort of sucked to be a part of but I think people just aren’t remembering that part.

No, I remember those games quite well. I remember having a blast.

[Razaell-sargeras (Razaell)]

THIS.

When you needed twenty plus dudes working together to take stonehearth bunker until it burned to progress, fending of waves of alliance attempting to retake it. THAT was fun as Hell.

Instead of this garbage run past each other and take a tower with 3 people. Zero coordination or teamwork required.

[Razaell-sargeras (Razaell)]

As usual, you’re wrong. Your entire post is wrong.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

THIS.

When you needed twenty plus dudes working together to take stonehearth bunker until it burned to progress, fending of waves of alliance attempting to retake it. THAT was fun as Hell.

Instead of this garbage run past each other and take a tower with 3 people. Zero coordination or teamwork required.

Weird it’s almost like that’s a player problem, not a map problem. You want pvp to happen, go make it happen. If alliance are trying to take a tower with 3 people it should only take you 3 people to take it back.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

No, I’m not. You keep on keepin’ on though, buddy.