Why do we get 30 minute dungeon deserter when removed?

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
1

I’m trying to tank heroics, already a challenge with the quality of healers queueing up today. So I get a shaman DPS who decides he’s going to purposefully pull groups, get himself killed, and then complain.

So I get kicked, for not “saving him”. And I get the dungeon deserter debuff?

That’s bull crap. If you’re removed from a dungeon, you shouldn’t get a debuff, at all. Give the debuff to people who leave on their own.

11 Likes
2

it’s so we can’t take groups hostage.

this wasn’t a thing in the beginning and we did degenerate things making this be necessary.

the alternative is worse.
trust me. i saw it. I was there.

3 Likes
3

I’m cool with being able to kick people, but why 30 minute deserter? Put 5 minute…30 is insane when 50% of the time it wasn’t your fault.

4 Likes
4

But without deserter wouldn’t you still get the 15 minute cooldown before requeuing?

5

Maybe, again, I don’t see why we punish people who are removed from group. It may not be their fault. Make the cooldown 5 minutes.

2 Likes
6

Deserter used to be 15minutes. It was changed to 30 somewhere down the line.

I’m not sure if the queue CD was in the game in original Cata.

7

its because people abused it. 5 mins is not enough

2 Likes
8

I vote for a 45 minute deserter buff. Git gud or go home.

9

How about getting rid of the people who act in this way?

Oh right, money.

1 Like
10

its abuse when we a mount drop near by the allways kick peopple for 30 wait pently is BS but gm play favriots

11

I’m inclined to agree, but do see the bigger picture.

I’ve been in a similar situation as dps.
Queue finally popped and I immediately entered the dungeon. This group had evidently already been having trouble, because as I zoned in they were already engaging the first boss. Running towards them, as I got closer, it was chaos already with the boss chasing the rogue back out the room. Naturally we wiped a short while later.
While we were all re-entering and headed back to the boss:

  • chat between Rogue and Warrior implied they are friends and the Rogue was trying to evasion-tank, but “he got scared and that’s why he ran”.
  • I asked why the rogue was tanking or something to that effect.
  • Rogue replied “FIGHT!” (yes cap and exclamation marks), ignoring the fact that no one was even near the boss yet.
  • And 2 seconds later I was kicked with deserter debuff.
    I suspect that 3 friends had queued as a group and were abusing the kick feature.

Clearly the feature is flawed in its current state. It’s open to abuse, and is unfair to people who get kicked for no justifiable reason. (When the kick feature exploited with deliberate intent to bully another person in the group, then the deserter debuff effectively compounds abuse against victims. And blizzard really should look at fixing this.)

FYI you also get the deserter debuff if everyone else abandons you, and you’re the last person in the group, and only then leave! Which is both more practical and more considerate than trying to pull 4 new people into your half-done instance. :man_facepalming:

That said, there is a bigger picture. And there are multiple factors that need balancing.

  • The debuff is intended to dis-incentivise people abandoning a dungeon prematurely. If you join a random dungeon, you should have the courtesy to try finish it.
  • Kicking someone is generally undesirable, because the group has to queue to find a replacement.
  • It also can disadvantage whoever is found as a replacement, as they miss the earlier bosses and their loot/quest options.
  • If getting yourself kicked were a means to avoid the debuff, that would simply incentivise bad behaviour where players can go so far as sabotaging the group until they get kicked.
  • There is no technical way to automate differentiating motive for kicking and whether/not it was justified.

That said some ideas for improvement:

  • When a group joins a queue, kick votes should require at least 1 person not in the group. (There are plenty of stories of groups abusing their numerical advantage to justify this change.)
  • Limits on how often people can be kicked before a group is automatically dissolved giving the kickers their own deserter debuff.
12

Because people are awful and its rare to be kicked for no reason but the MANY MANY people would abuse it if they got into a dungeon they didnt like or a group comp they didnt like.

As a tank or healer i could be like well I could leave and get a 30 min wait or get kicked and get a 5 min wait? hmmm Im holding the group hostage until they kick me!

Dungeons that arent popular could have 3-4 people do this in a row wasting everyones time!

1 Like
13

People can 100 percent self organize to stamp down this kind of behavior though. Make them wait a few times, then they will stop trying. It only takes 2/4 other group members to block your attempt to be kicked.

That said, group refills are fast now, so maybe it doesn’t matter if you kick them? It won’t happen 3-4 times in a row like you said because there is a kick cooldown.

14

Here’s another reasonable alternative: put the debuff only if you get kicked more than once in a certain time period (e.g. more than one kick in an hour). That way it will target more people with repeated bad behavior (like holding group hostage, griefing, ninja looting or whatever) and not penalize you for the more rare case when you’re on the receiving end of a bad faith kick.

15

It’s something, lol. I was removed from a heroic because I asked a shaman to not roll need on elementium lockboxes. 30 minute debuff. There should be consequences for griefing players.

16

How about a debuff that lasts the weekly reset. No cooldown, but 3 strikes and your character is locked out for queue for the week. That, or 30 minutes?

1 Like
17

Huh??? What?

18

It happened a lot in Skyreach. Tanks would AFK until we kicked them.

2 Likes
19

there wouldnt be game if you got rid of all the jerks on the internet.

20

so if 4 people are partied up and the one odd man out in the group cant ever be kicked. that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

they have been pretty staunch on not limiting kicking in any way.