Why do people think you cant be a *meme* spec?

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
102

All these hurdles, along with the grind itself, are what made rank 14 special. You simply dont get it.

Thats the social drama that makes an MMORPG interesting. Rank 14 required torturing yourself in one way or the other. The requirements and the volatility of the whole thing were always laid out, the people who chose to do it all knew that. That is why they were rewarded with good and crazy looking gear when they endured.

Now everyone gets it as a free handout. The gear and the rank are meaningless now, another important aspect of classic DEAD.

People like you murdered this game. And again, im not biased because i never chose to do that to myself, i never even went for Rank 14.

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103

Making your necessity a virtue. You did it and want it to continue to mean something after what you got put through. The palms you had to grease. The people you had to put up with.

It does still mean something. People not having to suffer through the ridiculousness you endured while ranking doesnt take away from what you put up with m8.

If anything you should be elated that neither you nor anyone else has to deal with that ever again.

104

I never did. I never even tried.

I plainly stated before that i did not do it. Therefor my statements are not biased.

No, the more difficult the hurdle, the cooler the gear. It only was special cause it was that volatile and annoying and straining. Now its a free handout and worthless.

Another part of Classic DEAD.

105

This is poor rationalization on your part because you are failing to admit why we played Frost in MC; because it was the only practical option for play due to the fact that many mobs were resistant to fire.

Furthermore Fire tree is our realistic PvE talent tree but it could not be used due to RP elemental resistance; this cripples our raid DPS in MC / BWL if we play fire. Its also why locks play shadow.

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106

R14 will remain far out of reach of most players and will remain “rare” when compared to raid gear that is literally for sale in gold dkp runs.

I suspect you are ignorant of how organized and how “hand out” R14 has been and can be under the old system. The new system only eliminates unhealthy behavior and mafia extortion that can not be overcome by “just play more bro”.

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107

The old R14 ranges from casual to impossible without being in the blessed group who control it and waiting your turn. Completely out of reach for anyone who can’t play 22 hours a day in premades. It is not a skill based achievement outside of needing to win more than other groups on your faction.

That grind is not worth it on a fully progressed server. It makes sense in much earlier phases for super sweats and is pretty irrelevant later. It needed to change and it will still be significantly more difficult than gearing through PVE

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108

Okay good so thats the standard then. The worse the hurdle, the cooler the reward. Thats how it always was and the people who chose to do it knew how long and how volatile the grind is.

I really fail to understand the problem here. With the social “mafia” stuff too. That literally just adds another stumbling block and makes it more interesting.

You just want to get something that other people had to earn in an inhumane grind that required alot of endurance for free.

I repeat myself: Ive never done it and never even really considered. Therefor my statements here are not biased.

I never was willing to do the horrible grind, so i never should be able to get the reward. How hard is that to grasp and accept?

The r14 grind wasnt toxic, it was interesting. Your attitude of wanting the cake and eating it too is toxic. People now insist on this idea of being able to get everything, without the previous requirement. Thats toxic.

109

I personally don’t think rank 14 being unavailable for almost everybody is a problem I actually think it’s cool to have things in game almost no one will get. That said saying it’s for free is misleading. If blizzard went with the first number 750k it would equal roughly 40 hours or so of highly optimistic honor gains. That’s still a massive time investment. Most people will still not get rank 14. The real dilution is probably the rank 11 mounts and such.

110

No you are just naive about it.

The coming changes remove most of the problems with it while still being a personal commitment to spend months to get something.

111

There are no problems with it.

112

I didn’t want to post much about PVP in this thread but since the main topic isn’t really being discussed anymore I will.

Rank 14 still isn’t free but I can see some of this guys other points about the ranking specifically. I felt both the PVP community aka “mafia” and the rivalries added an interesting dynamic that is hard to find in other games and I liked it, I played on Earthfury on both sides and met so many people from so many guilds and got to hear their crazy stories, and cheered for them when they succeded. To me, an MMO is about this stuff. A lot of the stuff that others love take a backseat for me (as in I never have or will play for things like gear and personal WCL numbers, the social things and working with a team best is 100x more important).

With that being said having a better time did take a good server and I’ve heard (well from one person, nobody else bothered to say it) that Whitemane Era has been messy. I had problems on Barman SoM too. So this has been server dependent, and that part was a problem, although that does also lead to server community and stories there.

Due to so many others liking the changes and since you can still premade and play with a team and still improve as a team and get to know a few people I’m more ok with it. If they had taken the premading out that would have been a dealbreaker for me though.

I’m also not a huge fan of self-obsessed players because I think they are bad for MMOs and honestly, since this tends to be a core personality trait, the whole world.

Overall I can understand that my opinions don’t match the majority which is something I’m used to no matter what I do since I was a kid. I just think differently and am not afraid to either.

It’s kind of nice to have someone like that guy say some of what you’ve been thinking (not all of that but some) when you’ve been going at it alone and nobody seems to get you.

With all that being said, I think this guy has been lurking to see what gets the reactions and that’s why he’s taken a stance like this on things like ranking changes, Chronoboon, what is “fake hardcore” etc. He doesn’t want to be liked he wants a reaction. Note for example that he’s been doing the thing about going at people for having a job. He knew the reaction to liking the old system has been to attack people for having “No life”. That’s trolling 101.

I don’t believe him and I’m going to avoid responding to him in the future. He looks like other trolls that come here.

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113

I assure you; it will not be “cake” easy. Its still a big grind at 750K honor; that is way more than most can handle.

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114

i surpassed every single warlock i ever raided with by FAR, and competed with the 99 parser mages (and even a 100). Both Ele and resto can fit in the caster group shaman spot, and when your raid is good enough you dont really need or want 7 resto shamans. The improved totems enhance brings does not make up for its terrible performance when compared to an ele shaman.
The point is that above a certain skill threashold ele is most definitely NOT a memespec.

115

I mean, you can just pull up Warcraft Logs. The top shaman in Naxx had 783 DPS on bosses vs. 1,746 DPS for the top mage.

If you do boss + trash, shaman was 715 DPS vs. 1,030 for mage.

Top enhance was 516 DPS… the small difference in personal DPS is easily made up for by Nightfall and stronger melee totems.

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116

There is a quote that may have been from a Blizzard dev that always stuck with me. Paraphrasing of course, but it went something like…

“Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game.”

Saw that with classic where people studied harder than what they would have put into their College courses to get an edge and progress faster than other players.

Prior to expansions they were farming in preparation and then knew exactly what to do prior to each phase of the game.

It unfortunately kills it for me as I can’t invest my life into it.

Hardcore is great simply because it almost remedies much of that.

117

Don’t join a min max guild expecting to be a meme spec. Join a raid team that allows it or start your own.

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118

all those numbers are wrong (i had 932 on bosses for example) and you cant really compare alliance mages to a horde only class. Casters performed noticeably better in the alliance.

Also, class inconsistency easily explains these. Mage ignite makes it so their dps is really good but also really inconsistent, they can get super high highs but their average is nowhere near as high. Ele shaman on the other hand is incredibly consistent so their top damage will be somewhat close to their average damage every raid. This makes looking at the top quite misleading.

check out this reddit comment, it should hopefully clear out all your misconceptions.

119

Debuf Limit needs to be removed. All Healing classes should have their DPS talent Trees made completely raid viable.

120

Thats the point though, mages build on each other’s dps so if you add more it makes the ignites stronger. Ele doesn’t synergize like that.

And ele does go out of mana, the high parses you see are in raids that are otherwise running a bunch of meta classes with high dps = short fight + consumes. Do it in an undergeared pug/casual raid and there’s a lot more problems. And their aoe sucks compared to mages.

There’s no actual reason to add an ele shaman to a raid if there’s a mage available. You can do it to be nice to your friend but your friend is weakening the raid with his pvp spec. Elite guilds can still clear content with inefficiencies, casual guilds can do it in mc/bwl and then collapse in deep aq40 and naxx.

121

No, you missed the point. I was already asuming a 4-5 mage comp for optimal synergy, but even then ignite makes their dps super inconsistent.

Those high parses were also in speedruns where there was no time to sit down and drink, only drinkwalking a few seconds in between pulls. And they still kept very high trash dmg.

Been there, done that. No problems when you compete with casual or undergeared people. Just be good.

The aoe might suck compared to mages but their cleave is far superior. Raids have more cleave than aoe.

Go read the reddit comment 2 posts up…