There are plenty of competitions throughout our cultures where humans don’t compete head to head, but compare their results to each other. Golf is pretty popular, even though the competitors aren’t on the same hole at the same time, they are still competing with each other.
People aren’t being competitive in heroics, but everyone imagines everyone else is stupid in wow. So if class A can be piloted by someone who is bad but can outperform a class B piloted by someone who is average, then people will favor class A, because failure in this game is not an option to some people. People drop group on a single wipe even if its faster to just keep pushing. The community at large is pretty bad.
I feel ya, I thought it was fun when forming a alpha/beta group in wotlk to just look at people in the LFG tool only looking for normal heroics and inviting them to the higher tiers. With RDF, who can be bothered to form groups anymore? Just invite guildies to a group and fill with RDF.
Yes, very true. And as such, PvE can be competitive too! I talk about this in my OP. (For those of you that “stopped reading” but still felt the need to post… cough cough.)
But to extend upon the post from the person you quoted:
Those people being mentioned are neither competing in said PvE, nor being casual about what specs they accept into their groups. They’re in… Intentions Limbo. They have no idea what they even want. So they live in this Limbo, wanting to be the top of the top, but not wanting to actually do what it takes, so they are half & half. They’ll be selective in who they bring, but they themselves won’t min max.
It’s a paradoxical position to take. I’m trying to either point that out, or be enlightened on what I’m missing.
I think what’s happening, is there are people who are unsure but want to put a group together, and they will spend extra time looking for people to make a group with a higher chance of success, because if the group fails, then they failed as a group leader.
For me, I don’t look for anyone to fill a heroic group, i just take the random NPCs you get in RDF. (I know they are people, but might as well be NPCs).
Requesting buffs when a spec is within normal distribution is dumb. Requesting buffs when a spec is statistically an outlier is important. The reason being: the community is really shi**y.
People enjoy different play-styles, and not everybody plays the game to compensate for their lack of real life accomplishments. Playing certain specs is perceived by many as straight griefing. You will not get raid invites, you will not get arena partners, you are more likely to get sh*t doing dungeons, and simply put, the community (at least the performance chasing part of it) will ostracize you.
And the crazy thing is that this is a VIDEO GAME. People just don’t want to deal with this, so they may suggest buffs to very under-performing specs so they don’t get bullied and can actually play what they think is fun. Before anybody says “then dont play cata”; that’s what people are doing. Retail has millions of subs when cata can barely get 300k logs at its peak.
While it’s not competitive in the sense it is in PvP, PvE does have a competitive element. That is, you are competing vs other players for a position in your desired group. If you’re preferred class puts you at a performance disadvantage vs someone on another class, it can directly impact your ability to access certain content.
I realize the argument “you don’t have to be meta to successfully clear content” is 100% true. However, people being people, they will only accept classes they deem to be the best, or within a very small variance of it in performance.
Yeah, but is it really happening so much that we think it’s the #1 cause of group rejections, and that fixing the slight imbalance would get people into groups?
Or is it more likely that the group already has 4 plate classes and so they don’t want a 5th, and then that player just blames it on “spec-ism” because they aren’t told a reason, and can’t see the group that’s already formed so far?
A have a whole post about it but quick resume , Balance is a cool thing and should be made , ppl always want their own spec be the best but that’s not what the posts are about, at least for the most .
Most are asking for balancing the most underperforming, what is the fun of playing a spec da does half of the dmg of their counterpart just bcuz arbitrary numbers are made like that , if it was a skill difference is one thing .
I even gone to prove to show to how the difference by playing of the bad specs fury warr , im not even i main and got 100 log on bosses in heroic only to be worth as 50-60 ish log of the others specs .
If u really interested and want to know the reason for that u just need to think a bit to be real
and if anyone interested Fury Balance and Others Classes Discussion that i already made
also lets remember just bcuz that’s dosant affect you as a problem, why mind ppl asking for nice changes that won’t affect you in any way.
A lot of the people requesting “buffs” or “fixes” for classes on the forums are just trolling. It’s the same handful of the chronically online. Notice the low post or new toons making all the “my class broken, pls buff”?
The sad part is that Classic devs give so little f%%^s about Cata they actually go through with some of the changes because it’s an easy 1 hour at most of hard coding a bandaid onto a class so they can pat themselves on the back and make it appear they’re supporting the game.
There’s still an issue. DPS is just one part of a class. Utility is another. However, PvE isn’t measuring most of that utility. Most of that utility is for PvP.
So what happens?
If Rogues were buffed in PvE to do exactly the same amount of DPS as the highest tier PvE DPS class in the game… now you just have an absolute OP monster in PvP (which is already the case tbh lol). Suddenly, that class not only MATCHES the top damage dealing capability, but they have SUPERIOR utility as well.
A class is made up of a lot of things. And, frankly, PvP measures those things in grand total a lot more than PvE does. (Saying this before you say something like, “well pvp shouldn’t exist!” Because it has just as much validation as PvE. I would argue more.)
And so anyway… then what? Then we try to balance utility too? At that point, what even is the difference between classes?
Hey i agree with that if they didn’t have the tec to just buff pve without buffing pvp , but they do .
Also as i said underperforming in that case rogue all 3 specs are either middle of pack or top , if u just check the logs so your example dosant make sense since why would they buff rogue ?
And last tbh nobody cares about pvp but that just a toxic pov from me anyway.
I’m not surprised rogues can top pve charts. They are also doing absurd damage in pvp, while also having the best utility. Hence why i called them insane OP, lol.
But i mean… does that make them a BAD example, or a GOOD one? I would say a good one. They’re proving my point as we speak.
You said they’re a bad example because they’re already doing top tier damage.
I’m saying that makes them a good example, because them doing top tier damage, while simultaneously having top utility (which PvE does not measure), has made them exactly as OP as I’m saying a class WILL be, if they tweak everyone’s PvE DPS to be the same. (It makes them have the same DPS in PvP as well, and thus, the classes with the most utility end up leagues ahead of everyone else.)
Dude with due respect but are u unable to read ? I just said the have the tec to buff stuff from pve without buffing it on pvp , and even if they dont use that way they can just buff the stuff that dosant affect pvp .