Why do people keep asking for changes?

[Fesz-cenarius]

The same people who complain about lack of community want sharding. The same people who say there’s no content want catch-up mechanics. The same people who say choice no longer matters want dual specs.

People don’t know what the Hell they want. And the things they ask for they’ll complain about when they get them. There’s a short-sightedness that, quite frankly, with the benefit of hindsight is a little baffling.

One thing i realized is that people want what they want (duh). It was never about Vanilla as it was. It was about Vanilla as they want it to be.

And this goes not only for those wanting class balance and other stuff.

This goes to those that want nothing but an official private server to play on. How do you think people will react if Blizzard made MC a 2-3 hour grind? Or scholo/strath taking 2-3 hours? It won’t go over well at all.

No, few people wanted the actual Vanilla experience. And this includes the “no changers”.

To a certain extent you would probably be correct.

Every one of us has their own “dream” version of classic. In that sense, it is very unlikely that any two people wanted the exact same version of classic.

Most of the no changers, though, only wanted elements that were actually present during vanilla, even if all those elements were not all present at the same time in vanilla. That is a far cry from asking for guild banks, class balance changes, “finishing uncompleted quest chains”, adding “content that was supposed to be in vanilla” to classic, etc.

Most of those no changers would love to see MC be a 2-3 hour raid, and scholo/strat taking 2-3 hours.

It is those with that instant (figure of speech, not literally “instant”) gratification, convenience oriented mindset that is so common among retail players that would have a problem with MC or scholo/strat taking that long.

[Mogar-stormrage (Mogar)]

I think plenty of people wanted, and still want, the actual Vanilla experience. I know I do.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

• “Oh no, we wiped on the raid boss and have to try again”
• “Oh no, I lost to boss X in Mega Man and have to restart”
• “Oh no, the robot chicken died and I failed the escort quest in Tanaris. I have to start over again”

Except those things will require you to actually change something about what you did and improve to be able to succeed. That’s not true of leveling in WoW.

and if you died to pulling too many? or allowed a mob to chain other mobs?

wouldnt you then have to change the whole way you look at pulling mobs or which mobs to kill before they chain?

ya i thought so.

No you literally go back and keep doing what you were doing, chances are you won’t hit the same random circumstances that killed you again.

You might die more often but sloppy play will hardly prevent someone from hitting level 60.

[Xecks-stormrage (Xecks)]

• “Oh no, we wiped on the raid boss and have to try again”
• “Oh no, I lost to boss X in Mega Man and have to restart”
• “Oh no, the robot chicken died and I failed the escort quest in Tanaris. I have to start over again”

Except those things will require you to actually change something about what you did and improve to be able to succeed. That’s not true of leveling in WoW.

and if you died to pulling too many? or allowed a mob to chain other mobs?

wouldnt you then have to change the whole way you look at pulling mobs or which mobs to kill before they chain?

ya i thought so.

No you literally go back and keep doing what you were doing, chances are you won’t hit the same random circumstances that killed you again.

You might die more often but sloppy play will hardly prevent someone from hitting level 60.

it all adds up to make it harder and more time consuming. youve got to understand that.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I think plenty of people wanted, and still want, the actual Vanilla experience. I know I do.

Plenty of people want a time machine and a MIB flashy thing, but we’re not getting those.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

people ask for modern qol and other things cause they cant imagine not having them. they dont have the ability to understand the game was great before all that.

And then there are the people asking for things DURING VANILLA. That’s a concept people here can’t grasp.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

my definition of harder includes the time it takes to reach a goal which vanilla beats retail on almost every measure.

Oh sweetheart, you obviously never played Everquest.

[Fesz-cenarius]

my definition of harder includes the time it takes to reach a goal which vanilla beats retail on almost every measure.

Oh sweetheart, you obviously never played Everquest.

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone claim that vanilla was harder than Everquest was, only that vanilla was more challenging and difficult than retail IS.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone claim that vanilla was harder than Everquest was, only that vanilla was more challenging and difficult than retail IS.

After you played EQ1, vanilla was a walk in the park.

[Fesz-cenarius]

people ask for modern qol and other things cause they cant imagine not having them. they dont have the ability to understand the game was great before all that.

And then there are the people asking for things DURING VANILLA. That’s a concept people here can’t grasp.

Regardless of whether Johnny was asking for QOL X during vanilla, the only relevant question when it comes to classic is “Was QOL X EVER present in vanilla?”.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

• “Oh no, we wiped on the raid boss and have to try again”
• “Oh no, I lost to boss X in Mega Man and have to restart”
• “Oh no, the robot chicken died and I failed the escort quest in Tanaris. I have to start over again”

Except those things will require you to actually change something about what you did and improve to be able to succeed. That’s not true of leveling in WoW.

and if you died to pulling too many? or allowed a mob to chain other mobs?

wouldnt you then have to change the whole way you look at pulling mobs or which mobs to kill before they chain?

ya i thought so.

No you literally go back and keep doing what you were doing, chances are you won’t hit the same random circumstances that killed you again.

You might die more often but sloppy play will hardly prevent someone from hitting level 60.

it all adds up to make it harder and more time consuming. youve got to understand that.

No it makes it more time consuming, time consuming is not harder.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

“Was QOL X EVER present in vanilla?”.

Connected flight points, for starters.

So, yes.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

No it makes it more time consuming, time consuming is not harder.

Exactly this.

[Fesz-cenarius]

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone claim that vanilla was harder than Everquest was, only that vanilla was more challenging and difficult than retail IS.

After you played EQ1, vanilla was a walk in the park.

As I said, that has been acknowledged.

Vanilla being easier than Everquest does not negate the fact that retail IS easier than vanilla, with the possible exceptions of high level mythic dungeons and mythic raids.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

Vanilla being easier than Everquest does not negate the fact that retail IS easier than vanilla, with the possible exceptions of high level mythic dungeons and mythic raids.

Clion, is that you? You sure sound like him.

Either way, it’s tough for someone like me who played EQ1 for so many years to look at vanilla and retail and think of one “harder” than the other. They’re both dead easy compared to the Hell Levels™ of EQ.

[Fesz-cenarius]

“Was QOL X EVER present in vanilla?”.

Connected flight points, for starters.

So, yes.

I’ve not seen anyone deny that connected flight paths were part of vanilla. Classic would be in keeping with vanilla if connected flight paths were not implemented in classic just as much as it would if connected flight paths were implemented in classic.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

I’ve not seen anyone deny that connected flight paths were part of vanilla. Classic would be in keeping with vanilla if connected flight paths were not implemented in classic just as much as it would if connected flight paths were implemented in classic.

The question was:

“Was QOL X EVER present in vanilla”.

Well, without context, and since anything post-vanilla can’t be in vanilla without a time machine, then your question must relate to the vanilla timeline.

So yes, vanilla had QOL in its own lifetime.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

I don’t think I have ever seen anyone claim that vanilla was harder than Everquest was, only that vanilla was more challenging and difficult than retail IS.

After you played EQ1, vanilla was a walk in the park.

As I said, that has been acknowledged.

Vanilla being easier than Everquest does not negate the fact that retail IS easier than vanilla, with the possible exceptions of high level mythic dungeons and mythic raids.

Sure but now you’re debating which kind of taco bell hot sauce is hotter, sure hot might be technically hotter but compared to a real hot sauce they both taste the same.

The same is true of difficulties in WoW when talking about retail vs. vanilla. And even then in many cases not true at all, most boss fights are technically much more complicated at all difficulties as are most rotations.

[Xanthak-durotan (Xanthak)]

The same people who complain about lack of community want sharding. The same people who say there’s no content want catch-up mechanics. The same people who say choice no longer matters want dual specs.

People don’t know what the Hell they want. And the things they ask for they’ll complain about when they get them. There’s a short-sightedness that, quite frankly, with the benefit of hindsight is a little baffling.

One thing i realized is that people want what they want (duh). It was never about Vanilla as it was. It was about Vanilla as they want it to be.

And this goes not only for those wanting class balance and other stuff.

This goes to those that want nothing but an official private server to play on. How do you think people will react if Blizzard made MC a 2-3 hour grind? Or scholo/strath taking 2-3 hours? It won’t go over well at all.

No, few people wanted the actual Vanilla experience. And this includes the “no changers”.

To a certain extent you would probably be correct.

Every one of us has their own “dream” version of classic. In that sense, it is very unlikely that any two people wanted the exact same version of classic.

Most of the no changers, though, only wanted elements that were actually present during vanilla, even if all those elements were not all present at the same time in vanilla. That is a far cry from asking for guild banks, class balance changes, “finishing uncompleted quest chains”, adding “content that was supposed to be in vanilla” to classic, etc.

Most of those no changers would love to see MC be a 2-3 hour raid, and scholo/strat taking 2-3 hours.

It is those with that instant (figure of speech, not literally “instant”) gratification, convenience oriented mindset that is so common among retail players that would have a problem with MC or scholo/strat taking that long.

I didn’t start thinking that no changers were split into 2 camps until 1.12 as a base was announced. Or any sort of re-tuning suggestion.

I know there are some that would welcome a re-tune, etc etc. But there are plenty of others that want a flat 1.12 private server experience where they don’t want to experience Vanilla as a whole, but to sew their oats and beat Naxx and not care about the rest of the game.

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

The same people who complain about lack of community want sharding. The same people who say there’s no content want catch-up mechanics. The same people who say choice no longer matters want dual specs.

People don’t know what the Hell they want. And the things they ask for they’ll complain about when they get them. There’s a short-sightedness that, quite frankly, with the benefit of hindsight is a little baffling.

One thing i realized is that people want what they want (duh). It was never about Vanilla as it was. It was about Vanilla as they want it to be.

And this goes not only for those wanting class balance and other stuff.

This goes to those that want nothing but an official private server to play on. How do you think people will react if Blizzard made MC a 2-3 hour grind? Or scholo/strath taking 2-3 hours? It won’t go over well at all.

No, few people wanted the actual Vanilla experience. And this includes the “no changers”.

To a certain extent you would probably be correct.

Every one of us has their own “dream” version of classic. In that sense, it is very unlikely that any two people wanted the exact same version of classic.

Most of the no changers, though, only wanted elements that were actually present during vanilla, even if all those elements were not all present at the same time in vanilla. That is a far cry from asking for guild banks, class balance changes, “finishing uncompleted quest chains”, adding “content that was supposed to be in vanilla” to classic, etc.

Most of those no changers would love to see MC be a 2-3 hour raid, and scholo/strat taking 2-3 hours.

It is those with that instant (figure of speech, not literally “instant”) gratification, convenience oriented mindset that is so common among retail players that would have a problem with MC or scholo/strat taking that long.

I didn’t start thinking that no changers were split into 2 camps until 1.12 as a base was announced. Or any sort of re-tuning suggestion.

I know there are some that would welcome a re-tune, etc etc. But there are plenty of others that want a flat 1.12 private server experience where they don’t want to experience Vanilla as a whole, but to sew their oats and beat Naxx and not care about the rest of the game.

But there were a lot of staunch no changers who immediately started asking for 1.12 to be changed when it was announced