And yet months ago, mail changes was a Big Deal™ To the no-changers.
Funny how no-changers get soft and shrug when Blizz says the change will happen.
Edit: I forgot to mention that the no-changers were soft on the AH update too.
3 Likes
That’s what I hope. But if they’re sticking with 1.12, not a whole lot we can do. That’s unless they do a full re-tune.
Granted, there will be an inadvertent re-tune (when Vanilla data gets “translated” to Retail) but however, they’ll go to make things “normal” is beyond me.
I would be. Only reason I’m even playing retail is was because I’m paid up through March already.
Yeah you’ll be playing Classic regardless.
2 Likes
I see a lot of statements like ‘This is what you should be wanting out of Classic’ and ‘This is why Classic was asked for’ and ‘This is what people want out of Classic’, all unsubstantiated claims made to silence opposing viewpoints.
Mat, aren’t you the guy always saying ‘Show me the proof’? Well, stand and deliver.
3 Likes
The posts I’ve made aren’t why my profile is hidden. (And search away. Have fun with nearly 15,000 posts, some as far back as mid or late BC, some green.)
I don’t like the rest of the garbage that page shows - top links, top replies to, likes given, likes received. It just feels like way too much, when all I want is post history.
(And, really, if I wanted to “hide” behind an alt, I’d go to one of my other two Blizzard launcher accounts that I started RAF accounts on long ago, use the Starter Account to get a character to 10 if I didn’t have one, and post that way. All my usual alts I’m pretty direct about saying it’s me, or they’re in my same guild. I do use a couple of them for more likes than the Trust Level thing gives me, like Paksennarion.)
EDIT: Just to be clear, I’m not thinking that was specific to me. I’m demonstrating that there are more reasons why someone might choose that option.
Same here. I initially wanted the TBC Dustwallow Marsh quests (which finished out The Missing Diplomat chain, among other things), and was tolerant to other changes, but after seeing the full scope of crazy non-Vanilla things being requested I’ve reverted fully to NoChanges.
People throw “slippery slope fallacy” around a lot in these forums, but the danger really is there. The volume of requested changes for WoW (both Classic and Retail) is so massive, diverse, and sustained, that once the Devs start yielding it’s hard to find a stopping point.
So why do you think that if they implement the rest of that quest line that it will force them to also implement flying?
A favorite among the #noChanges crowd is the logical fallacy of slippery slope, implying that if one change is made it will have a cascading effect until Classic is indistinguishable from Retail aside from having a level 60 cap.
What they really mean to say is: “I don’t trust Blizzard to wisely discern and only implement changes I want, so I’m going to insist that Blizzard makes no changes by means of false logic and forum-fascism.”
6 Likes
Wouldn’t it be more fruitful to ask for a Classic feature in Retail than the other way around?
I mean, technically Blizzard can just do a time walk I think they call it? Or an instance you walk through and it’ll transport you to “old azeroth”. it’ll just be on a Retail server so it’ll be separate from Classic.
1 Like
This may appease a certain crowd, but it’s a very limited ‘Vanilla’ experience. It’s pretty much ‘content-only’, but negates huge contributing factors to the Vanilla experience such as the economy, pacing, lack of modern conveniences, talent trees, spell down-ranking, etc etc.
My opinion is that one of the most important contributing factors to the ‘Vanilla experience’ was our ignorance, and no matter how Classic is implemented that will never come back. We wore set bonuses that sucked, stacked the wrong stats because the math/theorycrafting was either crude or non-existent, there was no Youtube with detailed boss strategies as most of them were hearsay or pictures made with paint, there was no WoWhead database with detailed comments to find where things come from or drop rates or spawn rates, etc. We had Thottbot, but lol…
On the one hand, there are instances where the folks who made that version of WoW have come out and talked about things they would do differently if they were making WoW 1.0 all over again. Similarly, the forums in those days were replete with players making well-reasoned arguments in favor of changes that could or should be made to the game and that’s excluding the major changes that came with 2.0. So the idea that the game should be malleable at the very least isn’t without some historical foundation.
However, I don’t think that means every single feature could or should be up for debate. Some systems that came along in later iterations flat-out have no place in an authentic Vanilla experience. I think at the end of the day, authentic has to be the guiding principle, at least insofar as authenticity is able to be applied.
How is it illogical to observe that if Blizzard yields to my desire to include TBC Dustwallow Marsh quests in Classic, then it becomes harder not to include other TBC content that filled out the Vanilla world as well? This forum has been filled with posts discussing including Karazhan or Caverns of Time as post-Naxx level 60 raids. There are also posts asking for TBC-style hybrid class design.
It’s very difficult to arrive at a hard rule about what is authentic Vanilla, and to apply it consistently.
1 Like
Nice strawman.
More like, I’m afraid that if TBC stuff starts being injected, then we’ll also get redesigns of hybrid classes (something that posters whine incessantly about).
1 Like
Well, I’m not going to dwell too much on it, but there is a generation gap we’re talking about here. Some of us knew how to play back then - if you (in general not you specifically, )cared to learn about it. If you were progression raiding, you knew where to look and how to gear, etc.
2 Likes
I mean, they don’t have to introduce this TBC stuff you are talking about to do the class redesigns. They are completely independent of each other. if they wanted to, they could implement flying out of nowhere and there is nothing you could do about it.
its simple really.
people ask for modern qol and other things cause they cant imagine not having them. they dont have the ability to understand the game was great before all that.
what most of them want is tbc stuff and they should lobby for that .
instead they come in and try to wreck up the place to suit their own selfish desires to make the game easier .
its wrong and they should feel bad for trying the crap they are calling for.
The same people who complain about lack of community want sharding. The same people who say there’s no content want catch-up mechanics. The same people who say choice no longer matters want dual specs.
People don’t know what the Hell they want. And the things they ask for they’ll complain about when they get them. There’s a short-sightedness that, quite frankly, with the benefit of hindsight is a little baffling.
1 Like
I believe there is a trend to the forums that show many posters are now open to changes…not extreme changes like flying et al, but reasonable changes.
theres not many changes that are “reasonable” and of the ones that are close to “reasonable” arent usually within the spirit of vanilla.
a “reasonable” change would be something like 1.5 av or pre 1.11 shield slam changes .
they both fit in the vanilla timeline and should be discussed.
others though are not in the spirit of vanilla or even the timeline of vanilla.
theres a difference.