How does any of that contradict the lore? Prior to Legion, where did it say who was or was not on the Broken Isles.
Also in Warcraft II Gul’dan did raise the tomb of Sargeras. Was it mentioned between then and Legion? Do we have any idea what happened to it during that time? Where is the retcon?
Artifact Knowledge was part of the launch of Legion.
When folks did the math and looked into whether this increased our rate of acquiring AP proportionally to the increase of AP costs, they remained the same. Artifact knowledge was the catchup system neatly designed so it looked like it increased our rate of getting new perks when in reality it didn’t.
All it did was generally match the rate of how much the costs of new perks increased. Which meant that it was a catchup system first and foremost.
The thing I mentioned above is EXACTLY why I also said that folks who disliked Legion are folks with no ability to pace themselves. Because that’s categorically true.
Legion is one of the only expansions where a common critique of it was “I have too much I want to do.” Not need, because very few things were necessary and those things that were necessary were timegated for that exact reason.
That’s why I’m fine with Timegating such as what we had in Legion because it was a really, REALLY good thing for the game’s overall health. And that’s not an opinion. Heck you even demonstrated it when you said here:
Because of something which literally was just a perception and not based in reality, because as I pointed out … the catchup system existed in Legion from day one, you felt like you gimped yourself because you wanted to unlock everything all at once.
Blizzard can’t do anything to prevent people’s minds and perceptions of things, but they can institute systems that timegate players when they are good for the game’s overall health.
My opinions aren’t shared by many in most regards. Both in regards to Legion legendaries and basic things like timegating being a good thing for live service games.
But my opinion not being shared by others doesn’t make it wrong. Especially not when they are based on things that actually happened. Not merely other people’s opinions or perceptions of events.
Why shouldn’t they remain the same? It would seem that in any release the rate at which you got talents and gear, compared to the challenges, should be the same.
In any case I found searching for artifacts to be one of the more fun parts of Legion. It was similar to how class trainers were important back in classic days and how there were special class quests.
He said he did it because he was afraid and didn’t have velen’s courage not because he was jealous. He didn’t think no was a response that wouldn’t end with Argus being totally destroyed.
Also it added so much depth to every class in the game with artifacts and the order hall quest lines. It wasn’t bad. It was great. The only thing that was bad was them using that model for a necklace in the next xpac. That’s when the collective groan started to set in.
How does a thread go 125 posts about why people liked Legion?
It’s because they had fun in it. It was all spectacle and shine. Class Order Halls, cool weapons (regardless of whether they were healthy) etc. etc.
The end state of legion, with the fixes to legendary drops and systems in place, was indeed one of the best state the game had been in from recent memory - modern wow I should say
Was the worst class design by far BUT
The story was super iconic. Every bit of it dripped what wow is to me. I found myself very immersed by the class halls, and the weapons.
I think about legion often as being good only because they abandoned another expansion while it was present though.
It had NO CHOICE but to be great. WoD would have been the end of wow (to me) if it wasn’t. lol
Dragonflight was sort of like that too.
Legion seemed to just never run out of fun activities to do.
There were quests everywhere, even professions had their own questlines. There were artifacts to level and appearances to earn. World quests covering every inch of the map. AP made it so every single thing you did was worthwhile. An epic story.
It was the most fun ive ever had in wow.
There was a ton to do. I would login every day and freaking spam the hell out of world quests, for emissaries, for disenchanting mats, for gold, for honor. The artifact weapon was super addictive in the beginning too. As well as potential for a legendary drop from everything, if you weren’t doing content where getting correct legendary mattered.
I agree on class design though. It was shocking to play ret on the prepatch day. Absolute slog of a spec. But a lot of it got better with the fully unlocked artifact.
No one said otherwise. That’s not the catch up system.
… you really have no clue what you’re talking about.
Extremely and entirely false.
It doesn’t make it factual.
To be fair, I would say that a portion of the FF XIV player base can be downright fanatical and zealous when it comes to defending their game, and way more than I’ve ever seen with WoW. I would know. I’ve been part of it for over a decade now. Still, when things get rough, they are pretty quick to unite, same as this one.
Many people have already listed why Legion was well regarded. I still use it as my leveling path to this day because I like completing the class order halls on my characters.
The biggest downside to the expansion is that they went overboard. We should have gone to Argus as a full expansion, not in a patch. With all that happened, Legion felt like the final xpac of the game. Everything since has been anticlimactic.
?
AP and AK are separate.
AK absolutely was a catchup mechanic.
The specific catchup system you are talking about expanded on the Artifact Knowledge system. The Artifact Knowledge system was the catchup system.
Sorry Sendryn, but this has to do with math. Nothing else.
The costs of future powers had a non-linear cost increase. Meaning that to match the current rate of available AP, it increase non-linearly.
Which meant that the earlier costs were cheaper than the amount of AP we gained by several magnitudes.
That per definition is a catchup system AND one that is built to maintain the pace of our characters all at the same time. Sorry Sendryn, but this ain’t an opinion - this is math. So yes, for AP the artifact knowledge was the catchup system.
You really do not comprehend this at all.
Artifact Knowledge increases the rate at which a player gains Artifact Power which is used to level up an artifact and learn traits.
And swapping from spec to spec was the problem, because you could not acquire enough for BOTH when Legion first launched. One weapon was ALWAYS behind from the other.
We all complained about this constantly on the forums until 7.1.5 and even then, it wasn’t enough and the complaints kept coming in---- especially for alts.
You managed to actually twist what I said into this?
Your opinion was that Legendaries were good and the insane amounts of timegating were good. That is what’s not fact.
Geebus, I knew trying to have a conversation about this wasn’t worth my time.
Which was changed quickly because it was a mistake.
What does that tell you?
Running side specs and alts in Legion was fun, in Legion. AK contributed a great deal to that (granted, it’s a solution that only exists for the borrowed power problem to begin with, but alas.)
Unhid your post, curious to see who was on ignore that kept replying to me… so I’m replying just to say that you proved my point. So thanks for that.
And it wasn’t “quickly” changed. It was six months later.
My entire point in this thread: things did not become fun for everyone until later, when catch up systems were added, most of the timegating was passed us, Legiondaries got their own “fixes,” it became more alt friendly, etc.
So once again, I was right. Thanks. Done and done.
Edit to add: here’s one of many old threads about the problems with AK/AP and alts and offspecs…
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2097527-Why-do-people-say-Legion-is-actually-alt-UNfriendly
I’m focused on one point, Shady is perfectly capable of holding his own, even against people who will try to guilt you into agreeing with them at the drop of a hat (that’s you, you’re a rotten human being.)
AK was a catchup mechanic. You were incorrect.
It also wasn’t an issue early on, which means “six months” is disingenuous. It became a problem some time into the expansion’s launch, not immediately.
AK operated as a scaling feature and a way to speed up AP collection for side specs and later for alts, as options to increase AK grew both due to demand and due to expansion features outpacing a fresh max level toon.
I was 16 when Legion came out, so too bad I missed it until it became free.
I have demonstrated that I understand this topic better than you do.
And guess what: folks didn’t have everything unlocked right from the start, which meant that EVERYONE’S weapons were like this, including folks’ who only ever played on character and one specialization.
A catchup mechanic is only meant to make you catchup and not fall too far behind. That’s literally all there is to it. Not a “I am not on par with someone else who played more/specialized harder than me”-mechanic.
I do my best to hold my opinions as close as possible to what are demonstrable facts. So no, it isn’t really possible to disagree with me because I haven’t pointed out many times on these forums what I personally think (albeit like any person of course I screw up, but in regards to this thread’s topic - not so much).
The Legendary aspects is the one thing where my argument is the most dubious but also indisputable, because my stance is still and have always been “I don’t care, it is a cool bonus, and this ultimately only matters to folks who are trying to min-max their characters as soon as possible.” Which equates to folks who participate in Race to World First only. Not even the AWC or MDI fall into this category.
And I already demonstrated that timegating can have an incredibly positive impact on the game’s overall health, and it is indisputable that it had a positive impact during Legion.
Timegating, as done in Legion, is an undeniable fact of the matter a netpositive for the game’s overall health. Regardless of folks’ opinions on it.
You keep lying and then making random assertions you cannot back up and run off with your leg between your tail. This ain’t new.