My point was that min/maxing comes downstream from ‘the cutting edge’ players and it’s bad enough that most advice that’s given now is ‘Sim Everything’.
Can you imagine how pervasive it would be if you could reforge only 4 stats?
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I mean I think min/maxing is demonized by many people when they do it everyday, but if you do it more than them then you’re a tryhard/minmaxer/etc. I think if you blame min/max you basically also blame how the game is designed because playing the game optimally should also be fun.
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I’m not saying get rid of it completely, but it does have a knock-on effect. Once you start pulling out the calculator and spreadsheets, the game loses a bit of its soul.
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I mean if the game did tell us the numbers we wouldn’t have to guess or sim them.
But in classic wow fashion it’s outsourced.
That’s where I think we’re going to disagree. Part of the fun is not having the exact answers. Makes the challenge harder.
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There is no challenge in looking up your bis stats/gear in wowhead/class discords. Heck these are lists you can find before the expansion/season comes out even most of the time.
There’s not always an exact answer as you will have to adapt depending of the situation and your group composition and sometime you’ll also prefer to play something you’re more comfortable with.
That would be an argument if you could currently pick the stats you get at a PvP vendor, or if you could choose your own drop table. It’s genuinely bad that I can’t get gear with the stats I want from the content I do.
Right now people sit there and sim every piece of gear, and then they have to sim the gear at a higher ilvl to figure out if they want to upgrade the gear with the 3+ different currencies they have to figure out how to acquire too which is also LIMITED in the season making doing that SUPER important.
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Reforging existed at a time when the only max ilvl gear came from raids. No mythic+ system offering 4-5 different stat combos for every item slot, no crafting giving you two bis items with whatever two stats you wanted. No catalyst and non set tier pieces for yet another combo.
If you wanted cloth boots for example you usually had 2 options, and to offset that you had reforging. Now the options just exist as separate items.
Yes, they should bring it back. I liked switching stats around then using a training dummy to find the optimal build myself.
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It’s time to make the game have:
- Primary Stat
- Crit
- Mastery
Done.
Every piece gives that, biggest ilvl wins, next character!
Then whichever class benefits the most from that wins, everyone else loses.
We hate endless power grinds where we’re stuck doing chores and trivial content the entire time we’re playing to stay optimized
We also don’t have hit rating, expertise rating, or haste plateaus on dot specs anymore.
Ignoring for a moment that everyone reforged to +Hit back in MoP-- They removed reforging to keep you playing longer.
Now, to get BiS stats, you usually need a specific cloak, off a specific boss, which may take multiple runs/kills… And if you are unlucky, you will ether have to keep doing that content FOREVER, or give up on it for one reason or another (most fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy though).
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Why not just have a Power stat at that point? At some point, removing stats becomes worse instead of better.
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Thats not all, but if you got a piece of gear in a raid a lot of players, especially higher end players, would zone out after any fights to immediately reforge. and they didnt want players to do that, or feel like they had to.
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People didn’t hate it, blizzard did. They went on a crusade against gear/stat customization, removing reforging, changing up how glyph’s worked (essentially making inscription useless), reducing how useful enchanting was, limiting it to rings and necklaces, and completely gutting socketing. Enchanting is now only sort of recouping in the last couple of expansions, with more things enchantable, and consumables like mana oil’s coming back.
The removal/nerfing of all this was pretty disliked back in the day. Sentiment may have shifted now that people are used to it, but it was definitely not a community oriented decision when it happened.
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I remember people being pretty happy for it tbh. No one liked spending 30 minutes re-enchanting, reforging, and regemming your entire gear set every time you got a new piece of gear.
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It’s not like reforging really solved much of anything, because there’s BiS gear whether we have that system or not. Probably the same gear in most instances too, because with the loot options we have today the only stuff you’d be reforging is tier gear without your two best stats. Everything else wouldn’t need to be reforged at all.
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