The High Elves were not fighting for survival. They were fighting for convience. They didn’t need to go there in the first place. They didn’t need to keep going. Their mistake doesn’t mean the Amani don’t deserve rights to their property and lives.
Even if they were, no. Fighting for survival doesn’t justify any action if you put yourself in that position.
Im not, you are just outright refusing to acknowledge the mountains of evidence I have already shown you.
I dont understand what you guys would have the High Elves do in this situation, they show up to an unknown land, dont understand the Amani claim it all, get attacked on sight by the Amani, the Amani refuse diplomacy, the current land they are in is driving them insane so they cant stay in Tirisfal, but they dont see in any honor in attacking the humans for their land.
The only reasonable option would be to fight your way through the Amani who are already attacking you, since staying in place is not an option, attacking the relatively peaceful humans is distasteful, and going back out to sea is potentially suicidal.
The Amani attacked them even in Tirisfal, and the High Elves could not stay in Tirisfal as the old god minions buried there were driving them insane. I dont see how “I’ve lost” you are advocating for either the High Elves to attack the humans instead, which is dishonorable because the humans never attacked the high elves, or go back out to sea which is pretty suicidal all things considered. The Amani attacked first against civilian settlers, thats a war thats still happening 7000 years later, but its a war the Amani started.
Read.
Not starting a war.
Your last point about attacks against their first settlement is proven wrong in Chronicles 1.
There where a lot of options.
The Elves choose the evil one.
Assuming they screw up the first step (like they did), skip to step three. There was a plethora of other places to go than Tirisfal and Amani land. Be that the areas later called Silverpine, Gilneas, Alterac, Hillsbrad. Or all the way to the Wetlands, Twilight Highlands, Elywnn Forest, the list goes on and on.
That’s tough because it was their choice to leave Kalimdor for magic they just wanted. It was their choice to not check if anyone lived up north. They don’t get to kill people and take their land for convenience (because they could have lived numerous other places).
Wee bit problem here.
https://
wow.gamepedia
.com/Amani_Empire#/media/File:Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg
As you can see, the Amani claimed almost the entire region, the only other land was occupied by humans. First of all, you dont get to claim an entire continent. Second of all, right to life trumps right to land.
That’s Not a problem at all.
It proves:
And your last point is ignoring the Amanis lives and fights and against really disgusting Stuff almost only a person with your sick irl racist statements above seen can defend.
They also has 100s of years time. But They chose to act evil.
There’s no problem, I just listed all the places they can go. You can reread it that they aren’t covered on that map.
That map you posted was thousands of years later when the humans expanded their holdings.
They weren’t fighting for right to life, they were fighting for convenience. Coming to Kalimdor, going north without checking, continuing going north after knowing it was inhabited? That’s not survival, that’s greed and laziness.
Oh, you think the map is inaccurate, because here we have another map that shows the Amani have always tried to claim the entire northern half of that continent, only stopping where the Gurubashi or Titanforged wouldn’t let them expand further south. https://
wow.gamepedia.
com/Amani_Empire#/media/File:Kalimdor_Chronicle.jpg
So where are the High Elves to go, north, to Northrend, where the Drakkari claim that entire continent, or south, where the Gurubashi claim all land there. The Trolls desire to claim the entire planet is hardly worth respecting.
All of the places you listed are either “claimed” by the Amani or Gurubashi.
I don’t think the map is inaccurate, I think it doesn’t support what you are claiming.
That map is also irrelevant to their holdings at the time of when the High Elves were looking for a place of convience to live. Which didn’t include (as noted) Silverpine, Gilneas, Alterac, Hillsbrad, Wetlands, Twilight Highlands, Elwynn Forest, and so on.
That map was from thousands of years ago. Two maps show they weren’t still claiming that land.
https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpedia/a/a3/Night_Elf_Empire.jpg
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Amani_Empire#/media/File:Chronicle_Troll_Wars_Map.jpg
We can clearly see the limits of their claims. Their lost wars against the Night Elves and The Sundering clearly made them stop holding so much land. This idea that the Trolls were all claimed at the time of the High Elves is fabricated.
Neither of those maps support your claim that Silverpine wasn’t claimed by the Amani, it was claimed by them before the night elves drove them out, it was claimed by them during the troll wars, 3,000 years past between the sundering and the arrival of the high elves.
Troll attacks were happening on the edges of the Elves settlement in Tirisfal, all of this evidence point to the Amani claiming silverpine, with Hillsbrad being settled by humans (considering there were humans in Tirisfal as well at the time. The only place unclaimed in the entire region was Gilneas, which the high elves have no way of knowing existed.
We see half of Silverpine covered by human claims in the other map. And we know the High Elves were in Tirisfal without encountering any Trolls. But that’s one of numerous places I’ve mentioned.
Heck, they could have even looked for the Shattered Isles.
Source of this at the time of their living there?
You realize they could have talked to the humans there. The only reason they left Tirisfal is because they couldn’t get the juicy ley lines and there was dark magic there.
It is called exploring. Helped by their magic. The only reason they knew about the northern lands is by doing that.
And again, Wetlands, Twilight Highlands, Elwynn, the Gurubashi were not claiming these places. The Humans and Dwarves all go there without issue because there just aren’t claims to it. Gurubashi were clearly confined to Stranglethorn per Chronicle 2.
“The Highborne argued whether they should expel the humans from the land or even conquer them. Dath’Remar did not agree with this because he sensed dark magic. To avoid violence, the Highborne packed up their encampment and moved northward towards another land rich with ley energies” - chronicle Volume 1 page 117-118.
So here we have it outright stating the High Elves were the party seeking to avoid violence. We also know the Amani never attempted diplomacy, while the evidence above shows the High Elves probably would have used diplomacy if the Amani had let them. Pretty damning for the Amani.
To avoid violence with the humans, yes. I’ve never pretended the High Elves wanted to hurt humans. I doubt the High Elves wanted to hurt the Trolls either (hard to say).
That still doesn’t justify any of their later actions. They should have tried harder. Pretty damning they came to another continent out of greed, failed to do due diligence about who lived their, and choose to kill and steal land instead of searching for the numerous other places that didn’t have inhabitants.
Ah yes, they came to another continent out of “greed” not because they were exiled, had no where else to go (That they knew of) and wanted to build a new home.
Whats the Troll excuse for constantly attacking the humans, I mean the Vrykul did drop them off in the area before the troll empires were even a thing, since the page about how humanity came about is before the earliest mention of the trolls.
If were doing it on a first come first serve basis, then the entire region should belong to the humans.
Yes because their exile was due to greed. They flagrantly and willingly chose to use magic they were outlawed from using. That decision was based in greed.
How do you think they discovered the Amani land?
The whataboutism is so funny. Because you know the High Elves aren’t defendable, so you pivot.
Its not whataboutism, its relevant to the argument of land ownership. If the first inhabitants of the land are its “true” owners, then the High Elves should have asked the humans if they could stay there (which the humans seemed cool with since they gave the high elves food when they almost died in that blizzard). The Amani would have no say in the matter.
It is because ‘excuse for attacking’ isn’t relevant in relation to latter land ownership argument. It is clearly a separate appeal unrelated to that.
I don’t see the humans ever claiming the land the Trolls were on in that time period. Probably because it didn’t happen. Even The Troll Wars wasn’t a war of reclamation.
Not surprising they didn’t.
The High Elves not being defendable is entirely a phenomenon confined to your mind. We have the High Elves sough to avoid violence, were on the verge of dying (as they almost did in that blizzard), while you have the Amani being a cannibal tribe waging a war of aggression against humanity over land that belonged to humanity first (at the very least in the case of Arathi and Tirisfal, since humans/Vrykrul were there since the times of Tyr.
It is not immoral to take a small piece of land for survival, from an empire trying to take land they have no claim to, that they dont need. Its like saying a thief who stole $5 to feed their starving family is the same as a bank robber who stole millions for greedy reason.
Thats all entirely ignoring the fact that had the Amani won, they would have killed everyone, all the Elves, men, women children, elders, all the Humans, men, women, children, elders, and eaten them all.
Explain this to us:
Why are you ooc defending an invasion?